Warrior build - work in progress and questions

Joined
Apr 23, 2020
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Netherlands and France
Hi, I am building a warrior, but instead of following the drawing I am using an 28" rear wheel. And this seems to initiate a bit of a problem. I hope some of you can give me directions to solve this in the easy way.
As you can see in the picture I have created some sort of jig to create the dimensions according to the drawings. 5" and 11" wooden blocks give support.


The corner between the rear seat tube and the center boom is 135 degrees (or 45 degrees) as mentioned in the warrior pdf. Due to the changed angle between rear fork and rear seat tube, caused by the rear wheel being 28" instead of 26", the 45 degree "fish mouth cut" in the top of the rear seat tube won't match the rear fork. See picture 2.



So, probably the fishmouth has to be changed to fit the rear fork. Does any of you know (by experience?) what the right corner is that has to be cut out on top of the rear seat tube? Or an easy way to derive the right corner?

Thanks!
Best regards, Kiezel
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
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340
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Winnipeg, Manitoba
One easy way to derive the corner would be to use a template and mark a line on the rear seat tube. A template could be something as simple as a square piece of cardboard. Trace its outline on both sides of the seat tube and then use your cutwheel.
 
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Apr 16, 2017
Messages
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When I built my warrior a 700c wheel was used which is 29". That required a 2nd rear frame piece to be fabricated. I had made the rear wheel enclosure to the plan spec and did not realize at the time that it needed to be longer to make room for a larger diameter wheel
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
41
Location
Netherlands and France
One easy way to derive the corner would be to use a template and mark a line on the rear seat tube. A template could be something as simple as a square piece of cardboard. Trace its outline on both sides of the seat tube and then use your cutwheel.
Thanks Hugh, I will try that!
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
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Location
Netherlands and France
When I built my warrior a 700c wheel was used which is 29". That required a 2nd rear frame piece to be fabricated. I had made the rear wheel enclosure to the plan spec and did not realize at the time that it needed to be longer to make room for a larger diameter wheel
Thanks, I saw that one coming, so I made the rear fork a bit longer than defined in the drawings. Still have room for (more than) a finger to stick between tire and iron.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
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Next stop: making your own wheels. I collected two 20" rims, got my hands on some (in my opinion) nice Novatec hubs and fired up the sapim.be spoke-calculator (see picture). I also did some measurements on the spoke-nipple, the first 2.5mm of the nipple (seen from the spoke side) has no thread. So, according to the spoke-calculator I should have 2 different lengths of spokes, 176.7mm and 183.7mm. Since most internetbikepartshops only sell "even numbers" of spoke length, I want to know what is best (or gives me the best chance for succes): a spoke a bit shorter than calculated (e.g. 176mm instead of 178mm for the calculated length of 176.7mm) or a bit longer (like 184mm for the calculated length of 183.7mm)?

And another question, the original nipples have an effective length of 11mm, is there any benefit for longer nipples?

What is your opinion on this?

*note: the non-gear side is probably the side with the disc

 
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
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Winnipeg, Manitoba
I can't comment on spoke lengths or wheel building. I wound up taking my hubs and rims to the local bike shop and having them order and lace up plus true the rims. The result was reliable wheels for several thousand km's and the cost seemed reasonable. My main comment is about the junction between the seat tube and wheel support. I cut a couple chainstays from a scrap frame and welded them to create a triangular brace from the wheel support to the seat tube. The reason I did this on my Warrior is due to me trying to get going on a small uphill incline and being in the wrong gear I was forced to really bear down on the pedals, adding to the strain I had given the trike a 500 watt rear hub motor. The weld at the seat tube/wheel support junction held but the metal tore about 1/2" from the top of the seat tube. If you were to add any bracing it is important to make sure the braces don't interfere with any components.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
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I talked with the bike shop about that. They don't use that calculator, because of those strange numbers.
I don't know how they do it. I just let my wheels be spoked by a bmx shop.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
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Wakefield, UK
I doubt you need longer nipples. I've used std nipples in many applications and never had any issue. Shorter or longer would depend on the rim. If it's a deep rim with recessed nipples under the part of the rim where the inner tube will be then longer can be catered for. If it's a flat rim with nipples covered by rim tape then longer will need to be kissed with a grinder as they'll stick into the innner tube. Kissing them with a grinder is difficult on a narrow rim but easy on a fat one.. If the spokes are too much longer then you'll run out of thread on the spokes and the nipple will go tight. Generally I'd err on the side of too short.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
41
Location
Netherlands and France
I can't comment on spoke lengths or wheel building. I wound up taking my hubs and rims to the local bike shop and having them order and lace up plus true the rims. The result was reliable wheels for several thousand km's and the cost seemed reasonable. My main comment is about the junction between the seat tube and wheel support. I cut a couple chainstays from a scrap frame and welded them to create a triangular brace from the wheel support to the seat tube. The reason I did this on my Warrior is due to me trying to get going on a small uphill incline and being in the wrong gear I was forced to really bear down on the pedals, adding to the strain I had given the trike a 500 watt rear hub motor. The weld at the seat tube/wheel support junction held but the metal tore about 1/2" from the top of the seat tube. If you were to add any bracing it is important to make sure the braces don't interfere with any components.
Thanks, I will thake that into account!
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
41
Location
Netherlands and France
I doubt you need longer nipples. I've used std nipples in many applications and never had any issue. Shorter or longer would depend on the rim. If it's a deep rim with recessed nipples under the part of the rim where the inner tube will be then longer can be catered for. If it's a flat rim with nipples covered by rim tape then longer will need to be kissed with a grinder as they'll stick into the innner tube. Kissing them with a grinder is difficult on a narrow rim but easy on a fat one.. If the spokes are too much longer then you'll run out of thread on the spokes and the nipple will go tight. Generally I'd err on the side of too short.
Thank you, this is a reasoning I can follow (and it addresses my gut feeling of choosing the "too-short" spokes). First hand expertise tips are valuable :)
 
Joined
May 31, 2013
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South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
I have only ever used standard nipples on any of my wheels.
If anything I round the lengths DOWN to the closest size available because you generally have tight spokes and you don't want them poking through into the inner-tube area.
Where I buy my stainless steel plain spokes (SJS Cycles) they generally come in 2mm increments so there is not usually a problem.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
41
Location
Netherlands and France
I have only ever used standard nipples on any of my wheels.
If anything I round the lengths DOWN to the closest size available because you generally have tight spokes and you don't want them poking through into the inner-tube area.
Where I buy my stainless steel plain spokes (SJS Cycles) they generally come in 2mm increments so there is not usually a problem.
Thanks, that makes things clear!
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
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Netherlands and France
When finalizing my Warrior trike I ran into a problem I didn't expect. My front derailleur did not get enough tension to shift the chain. In the manual there was no mention of such thing, so I hacked a solution (see picture).
How did you solve this? (Looking for more elegant solutions).

 
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
41
Location
Netherlands and France
🤨... can't u just pull more gear line through the crimp point?
No, I tried. Then I realized that on my original (diamond frame) bike the outer cable was terminated against a frame-mounted block. With the outer cable resting against the mounting point where the inner cable sits doesn't give enough tension.
 
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