My life with Python trikes Mk1 , Mk1.5 , Mk2 ?

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Ok what's happening ?

In the Uk the summer vibes are about big time and the sap is rising .......

So you know what that means boys and girls ?

Yep the Python needs the spring maintenance and bug/annoyance eliminate in preparation to a jaunt in Holland.

Concentrating on the front half , most complicated bit first as that will go no matter which rear half I choose.



As you can see front mudguard completely covers front tyre so wheel needs to come out to check for foreign bodies in tyre [ I can see there are 5 ! spread between the 2 rear tyres in the Mk1 half on the right ]
Check for broken spokes and check grease in bearings and their general condition.

So tyre looks fine - no broken spokes - axle not so good lumpy grinding noise when spun in hands and leaned to one side ?

Fearing the worst I took it apart to find the bearings in good condition and plenty of grease cups ok etc.

Grinding must have been some dirt trapped by the dust covers ....

So onward and ever rear ward ?

Been chasing a clunking noise noticeable when dropping off low kerbs or speed bumps , tightened seat to within an inch of it's life with no improvement ?

However rod end bearings are old one's already done 1 trip and a winter so they were down for replacement , new one's fittted new lock nuts [ Thanks Dan , you know why :oops::rolleyes:(y) ] and mysterious clunking eradicated hurray you say.

Wheels for rear should be ready for pickup Thursday morning then off on a weeks holiday before back to the task.

Rear end needs a light/reflector bar adding high up behind seat so not obscured by luggage so that's the next job should be 2 welds and 6 holes when I get the steel.

all for now Paul

ps MUST get some miles on it .....
 
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Sounds like "pre-flight" checks have gone well and she's almost ready to take-off for foreign climes. :D
 
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Ok so it is time this was ridden ? I really want to do about 300 miles before Holland and only have 6 weeks to do it in ?

50 miles a week is big mileage for me , especially ever week - we will see ?

Today I did 14.5 miles - some observations :-

Right rear wheel rattling so much/loud that it would wake the dead and drive me insane ?

Reason inner anti-crush tube is loose , I was hoping putting in the axle and tightening it as much as possible would stop it ... not a cat in hell's chance [ the same way all this build has gone so far :) ]

Normally these bearings are drifted in with a socket and a hammer , however it was not obvious which bearing was out of place a less brutal way was needed ?

So I took the wheel off again and put it on a threaded rod with a socket both sides resting on the outer ball race track , I then hand tightened a top nut and then used a spanner to give it 1/4 turn hoping the bearing out of place would be the one to move as opposed to the bearing up against it's hub lip already ?



Took it out and still loose so re-assembled and gave it 1/2 a turn that fixed it now the tube can just be moved aside with a screw driver [ which you need to do to knock out the bearings when replacing them ]

Nice to just add a pannier to the rack in under a minute so I could carry more stuff on the trip.

Brakes work however they are not particularly effective [ a reason to do 300 miles ] at the moment ?

However getting it up to speed [ 25 mph ish [ downhill ;):)]] I tried each brake on it's own and found some odd behaviour ? the Python drifts slightly away from the brake being applied ? ODD !

Otherwise it rode quite well can turn as tight as the Mk1 despite being 5" longer and seems nimble enough , look behind when riding it looks wider than the Mk1 [ which it isn't ] however it passes through the same barriers as the Mk1 so result.

Last part to be fitted is a light/reflector bar to raise them above the height of the rear seat & any carried load , painted and drying.

all for now Paul
 
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Yay! Really pleased for you that the issues are getting knocked-off one-by-one.
It is beginning to sound like you have things under control at last.
The "odd" behaviour on braking is because you have a "swivel-jointed" frame (pythonised) I think.
My hub-braked delta behaves as I would expect. Left-brake hard and it drifts left, and opposite for hard right braking.
It is something you WILL get used to.
 
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Yay! Really pleased for you that the issues are getting knocked-off one-by-one.
It is beginning to sound like you have things under control at last.
Hold that view , I may need to come back to you on that ?

The "odd" behaviour on braking is because you have a "swivel-jointed" frame (pythonised) I think.
yes that makes sense putting the left brake on causes the rear to try to turn left and that pushes the pivot left which then causes the front to steer right giving a slight right turn ?
it is not a turn more the feeling of some bias away from the braked wheel , some thing I will compensate for I assume eventually with enough miles under my belt ?

Paul
 
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Ok so the bad news ? I have weighed the beast ?

Comes out at 35kg ? so that is about twice the weight of a commercial trike , however in my defence it has about 80 litres of carrying capacity :)

I appreciate there are several ' over ' engineered areas and lots of surplus steel + still has both front brakes fitted ....

As most of my school reports said ' could try harder ' so still consistent 48 years later.

Lights bar made/painted/fitted :-



two lights and 2 reflectors



onward and every upwards they say Paul
 
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Comes out at 35kg ? so that is about twice the weight of a commercial trike
Hmmm... Not quite, a Hase "Allround" is 19.5Kg. best add a 5Kg lump somewhere to make up the extra. ;)
As you say, it has the cargo capacity and while you will be lugging the frame everywhere, how much does the Mk1 weigh and is the difference less than the weight of a trailer?

Looking good from here Paul.
 
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From the old forum :-

Trike now done 130 miles and no outstanding problems , except that the weight makes your eyes water ?

Now ready to hit the beaches it weighs 30 kilo !!!

This includes :-

1 spare inner tube and tyre bound together
2 spare inner tubes - spanner [ for front wheel ] & tyre levers
tool kit
first aid kit
wood plate for lifting rear of trike to work on front
tyre pump
spanners to remove pivot bolts
spanner to remove rear wheels
heavy waterproof coat
maps [ weighs 1 kg ]


The Mk1 ready to go ?

The weight of the Mk1.5 was empty !!!
 
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Ok up to 30 miles and it continues it's downward spiral , any more of this SA hub brake/wheel nonsense and it is going back to unbraked rears and both brakes on the front wheel.

Since the last ride report the right hand brakes does not now work properly !!! 😠😡👿

So left brake works great and a single finger can operate the lever and even when I feel the brake shoes in contact with the wheel a single finger can still give some braking effect , nice.

However on the way out towards my parents I noticed the right takes my whole hand to move the lever and it is so tight I cannot fell the shoes meeting the drums and there is little braking effect ?

Once at my parents I found the left drum stone cold wheel spun freely and the right drum warm to the touch and wheel made a dragging noise ? so brake to tight and rubbing ? so I slackened the cable off on way home this made almost no difference and that wheel ran a bit longer when spun but still sounded as though it was rubbing ? so I slackened it off even more and still the same when I got home.

This is made worst by the fact I cannot get to the adjuster and they are shrouded by the frame of the trike :-


The frame stops reaching it from the front and the vertical bar stops your hand getting in properly and then the adjuster is running up the side of the piece I welded on to hold the back plate anchor bolt - a real pigs ear of bodges attached to bodges in an attempt to get a poorly designed piece of kit to work.

there is a spacer on the back plate - however it is not longer enough so if you bolt the hub up against a surface there is insufficient clearance for the operating lever [ why ? surely if you make it with a spacer it should be long enough for the job ? ]

Once you add an additional spacer like so :-



You then find the back plate mounting does not meet the mounting because you have spaced the hub further from the frame !!!

So you add a piece for that [ the 3mm piece welded to the surface ]

then you find the pieces you left on for strength [ the sloping bit obstructs the cable adjuster ......

I wanted the cable vertical to stop some of the road dirt entering it however I think in most commercial trikes it actually runs horizontal ?

Some not all look like this :-


whether I can get mine to look like this I have no idea ....

One last try and we are back to unbraked rear wheels and a flaky disc/V brake combo ..
 
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Arghhhhh... I feel your pain Paul.
My SA-Hubs are no trouble to adjust and have decent braking performance on either side.
I am at a loss as to what your issue might be at the moment.
Can you put up a picture of the "working" side as well?
 
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Dan

As requested:-



the only visible difference is that there is a small amount of light visible between the adjuster and that frame stub , however that changes depending on where you view it from and where the cable sits ?

on of the problems with this poor design is that the adjuster just fits in a hole and so if free to move around depending where the cable is mounted what's pushing on the cable etc etc

On the Shimano roller brakes the cable enters into a fixed bracket so the angle when leaving the end of the cable housing is correct for the operating arm , these just float in space BAD !



I think the adjuster is being pushed out of like by the frame stub and not exiting the barrel end somewhere near the centre ?

Even on the top picture you can see it is over to one side ?
 
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The Cable adjuster merely sits in a round-bottomed slot and is meant to be free to rotate in that slot in order to always present the best possible line to the operating arm of the hub-brake, which is travelling in an arc.
To me that's a pretty good design as it allows for the arc and the change of angles between the fixed and moving point.
However, if the implementation has obstructions that prevents the barrel adjuster from swiveling in the slot, then you will get impairments in brake operation I think.
It looks like your adjusters are not totally free to swivel easily?
 
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It looks like your adjusters are not totally free to swivel easily?
Yes that is where I am coming from at the moment , I have put a 8mm bolt through the bolt hole in the stub with a washer on it and intend tomorrow to cut around the washer where I can to get some clearance.
 
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This is the problem with the SA hubs and why IMHO they are a poor design ? from a mounting point of view



the Lego is a simple wall and the hub is up against the wall , well only the operating arm is and that needs clearance to move.

the shiny silver thing in the middle is the supplied spacer ? so why is it to short to meet the wall ?

the plate on the right has 2 functions ?
1)anchor to frame to stop rotation when brake applied as you can see it is also not the right shape to meet the wall and is a different distance from the wall to the silver spacer ? WHY !!!

2) holds cable adjuster which would also be touching the wall if installed as it goes between the black plate and the wall and the cable joins the arm on the left to the cable adjuster

so you need clearance for the arm to move and the adjuster and somehow mount the axle sleeve and the anti rotation plate without getting in the way of either of them ...

Ok rant over
 
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This is the problem with the SA hubs and why IMHO they are a poor design ? from a mounting point of view



the Lego is a simple wall and the hub is up against the wall , well only the operating arm is and that needs clearance to move.

the shiny silver thing in the middle is the supplied spacer ? so why is it to short to meet the wall ?

the plate on the right has 2 functions ?
1)anchor to frame to stop rotation when brake applied as you can see it is also not the right shape to meet the wall and is a different distance from the wall to the silver spacer ? WHY !!!

2) holds cable adjuster which would also be touching the wall if installed as it goes between the black plate and the wall and the cable joins the arm on the left to the cable adjuster

so you need clearance for the arm to move and the adjuster and somehow mount the axle sleeve and the anti rotation plate without getting in the way of either of them ...

Ok rant over
Ahhhh.... but ....
Take the Lego away and turn the hub the other way up; put the cable end barrel-clamp and the cable adjuster in their respective places. Are these two items actually in alignment?
If YES, then its your frame mounting method that has caused your problem and SA are not-guilty. ;)
If NO, then....
  1. I am shocked.
  2. I would ask if the backplate etc. are "as bought" or a mix-n-match concoction.
You are getting to the bottom of the problem, albeit slower than you would really like.

Let me grab one of my backplates and take a picture for comparison with yours.


Well, that alignment looks fine to me As the brake lever is pulled and the fixed-point and the operating arm are drawn together the cable adjuster rotates in the slot and the barrel-clamp also turns in its cradle in the operating arm to keep a good line. More so when there is no box-section in the way to prevent movement?

It might be the manner in which you have been forced to install the hubs and the relative placement of frame etc. that's the issue, rather than a design issue with the SA units themselves?

Keep going, I think you can solve this.
 
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No you missed my point ...

Which is that SA created a spacer for the rear of the hub that is not big enough to space it away from the frame for arm clearance and also the cable adjuster plate is a different distance from the Lego than the 'spacer' provided ! so they cannot both be mounted on a simple 3mm plate !!!

Also you are not comparing like with like as your picture shows the QR version and you have spaced the axle away from the mounting by using one or two slim nuts provided with them NOT the single spacer I have provided by SA ?

Your picture highlights some of my other concerns [ although some may be camera distortion ? ]



The gap A does not equal the gap B I suspect because the cable at C has not been clamped to make it parallel to the cable adjuster centreline ?

The cable can be seen not exiting from the centre of the adjuster , although mine look a lot worse than this it is made created by to much play in the adjuster barrel holder in the back plate being able to pivot from left to right in the picture where as it only needs to be free to pivot in and out of the picture when the arm is operated.

It might be the manner in which you have been forced to install the hubs and the relative placement of frame etc
Yes and No ?
The cable now has to be vertical as the frame member is vertical a throw back to when disc brakes were going to be used.
I did not anticipate that the axle and back plate mountings are in different planes and that I could not have ANY frame near the operating arm
Both these and a woeful under estimation as to how much free space was needed for the adjusters has led me to here...
 
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No you missed my point ...

Which is that SA created a spacer for the rear of the hub that is not big enough to space it away from the frame for arm clearance and also the cable adjuster plate is a different distance from the Lego than the 'spacer' provided ! so they cannot both be mounted on a simple 3mm plate !!!

Also you are not comparing like with like as your picture shows the QR version and you have spaced the axle away from the mounting by using one or two slim nuts provided with them NOT the single spacer I have provided by SA ?

Your picture highlights some of my other concerns [ although some may be camera distortion ? ]



The gap A does not equal the gap B I suspect because the cable at C has not been clamped to make it parallel to the cable adjuster centreline ?

The cable can be seen not exiting from the centre of the adjuster , although mine look a lot worse than this it is made created by to much play in the adjuster barrel holder in the back plate being able to pivot from left to right in the picture where as it only needs to be free to pivot in and out of the picture when the arm is operated.


Yes and No ?
The cable now has to be vertical as the frame member is vertical a throw back to when disc brakes were going to be used.
I did not anticipate that the axle and back plate mountings are in different planes and that I could not have ANY frame near the operating arm
Both these and a woeful under estimation as to how much free space was needed for the adjusters has led me to here...
OK, I get it.
Can you not use a longer bolt and put a greater stand-off (M12 nut, spacer-tube or whatever ) on the outer side of the frame so as to give you the required clearance, and add a similar amount of material for the backplate anti-turn fixing point? Bolts & nuts are cheap enough to risk playing with; 9..12mm extra offset from the frame vertical member might be all you need?
It's easier to tell what needs to go where when you are standing looking at the darned thing, so apologies if I have it wrong yet again Paul.
 
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OK, I get it.
Good , can you now explain it to me :)

It's easier to tell what needs to go where when you are standing looking at the darned thing
More variables than the national lottery ...

I can't keep coming away from the frame the axles are already to short and the only bolts I have are barely longer ? however the grinder adds lightness so that is the current chosen path.
 
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Ok a brief window in my busy week sees the Python under going open leg surgery on the front lawn :)



Wheels removed again ! and stub attacked with 1mm cut disc , grinding disc and hand files produces this :-



and parts added



So plenty of clearance for adjuster ? both sides done although on re-assembly it looks like the better side before I started needs a couple more rubs with the file ?

Very quick ride around the estate shows marked improvement and a couple of concerns ?

Busy rest of week however hope to get some paint on the raw edges.

Brakes not well balanced - that's my job to fix although they don't drag they bite at different points ?

Creaking noise coming from right hand wheel when hard cornering in either direction - spokes ?
I need to swap them over and see if it follows wheel ? then back to wheel builder for advice

Next test ride scheduled Friday another 14 or so miles and riding passed the wheel builder's place so will try and drop in
 
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