My life with Python trikes Mk1 , Mk1.5 , Mk2 ?

Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
3,981
Location
South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
The only "tidy" alternative would be tank-steering, but I think it would not have the leverage required?
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Dan

Or the distance needed for the amount of lock involved.

Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 272 miles - [semi] retired - proved tilting concept
Tilt#4 = 135 miles - [ semi ] retired - will be born again Tilt#6 ?
Tilt#5 = 82 miles
Tilt#6 = 1 miles
Total = 562 tilting miles so far..

So got 30 mins this morning and got it welded up.



lost a bit of lock however it should be enough to live with ?



Removed red extensions as no longer needed and it got reassembled :-



Looks fine and spiffing , seems to ride ok to.



Chain oiled and mudguard added.

With a pannier for some tools I could try and ride it to mothers , however only if the weather improves !

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 272 miles - [semi] retired - proved tilting concept
Tilt#4 = 135 miles - [ semi ] retired - will be born again Tilt#6 ?
Tilt#5 = 82 miles
Tilt#6 = 11 miles
Total = 572 tilting miles so far..

Ok so been to mothers on Tilt#6 about 10 miles , uneventful however came back with a snagging list [ no surprise there ! ]

The sharp corner on the underside of the raised part of the front frame between the axle and the BB has hit the left ankle a couple of times [ VERY painful ] this caused some unnecessary tension for the rest of the ride trying to stop it happening again.

In the short term applying the grinder to it may be enough.

Else find my short cranks ! that should put the ankle far enough forward to avoid contact.

The steering lock limit imposed by the handlebars contacting the frame is a really pain in the bum ! I have not noticed the lack of lock whilst riding however when off the trike the sharp angle of the front end acted like a parking brake of sorts now that has gone and it is very frustrating trying to chain it up or put stuff in the only pannier when the trike just rolls away from you.

So I also have another handlebar problem , I noticed the moment I left the estate I live on there was a creak when pedaling I distinctly remember checking the cranks were tight before I left so it was a puzzle for the next 4 miles ?

Turning the trike around to leave mothers I happened to grab the left handlebar and it creaked , the same noise ! it seems it is either loose [ unlikely ] or there is a small amount of interference between the added bit and the existing frame [ more likely ] so it needs to come off for investigation. I assume it appears whilst pedaling as I am bracing the bars against the pedal strokes , riding home with just the right handlebar in use stopped the noise.

At the same time I will look at shortening it to get my steering lock back , also will look into welding a bridge taken from some front suspension forks onto the front frame to add a parking brake.

The seat is now so far back I can rub my elbows on the rear wheels whilst cornering , nothing new there then [ the original short w/b Python had the same problem ] it has not happened much on the Tilt#Series due to the higher seat and longer w/b , number 6 has the seat further back than any previous one , not fixable , so just some design consideration for the next ' real ' trike.

Will the next ' real ' trike be a tilter ? unsure ?

So nothing show stopping ...

Paul heading for 600 miles .....
 
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
3,981
Location
South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
Good to hear the trip was successful overall. :)
Shame about the ankle-bashing and the creak. :(
With the planned "fixes" from today's snagging you may get to a position where tilting becomes your preferred option.
If you do decide not to deploy tilting, will you add some suspension instead to continue without the bumpy-ride?
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Good to hear the trip was successful overall. :)
It's a start least I made it back under my own steam...
Shame about the ankle-bashing and the creak. :(
These thing's annoy the hell out of me , way beyond the amount of noise , I rode the whole trip home trying to use the right hand handlebar and brake !
With the planned "fixes" from today's snagging you may get to a position where tilting becomes your preferred option.
I think it is time to resurrect a low seat wide track non-tilter , that may be a shock to the system ;)
If you do decide not to deploy tilting, will you add some suspension instead to continue without the bumpy-ride?
Yes I may need to.

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Ok so some garage time , and grinding/cutting outside dodging the rain.



Modified the brackets cut a piece off and re-drilled the mounting holes.

That put the bars about 1" further forward however it about doubled the steering lock and there is a bit more to get when I trim the handle bar mounting plates.



So this was the contact point , look at the gap between the black bar and the rectangular tube behind the cable tie....



A lot closer and about twice the lock :)

You can also see where the seat has been , right at the front where the paint is missing.

Also on the first ride a cable tie broke holding the mud guards so I drilled some M6 holes and mounted that with bolts so nice and solid ....
Except now it has the ability to trip me up should I catch it with a foot when mounting or dismounting , nasty.

Needs a bit more trimming then a test around the estate.

Paul
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 272 miles - [semi] retired - proved tilting seat concept
Tilt#4 = 135 miles - [ semi ] retired - will be born again Tilt#6 ?
Tilt#5 = 82 miles - [semi] retired - still usable [ at present ] should Tilt#6 need work
Tilt#6 = 31 miles
Total = 592 tilting miles so far..

Wow had a 20 miler despite the drizzle that turned to rain.
Mothers first then a detour to drop off an Xmas & Birthday present.
No problems with trike , however it was refreshing to be on a different route with different challenges and despite only having 6 gears I did not really find myself at a disadvantage , helps if you are along for the ride and not chasing speed :D

While looking around I noticed the pedaling legs , I did a small amount of trimming for the ankle strike , however I realised if I fitted a cranked crank arm I would have the needed clearance without any further butchery DOH

Paul should reach 600 this week !
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 272 miles - [semi] retired - proved tilting seat concept
Tilt#4 = 135 miles - retired - will be born again Tilt#6 ?
Tilt#5 = 82 miles - [semi] retired - still usable [ at present ] should Tilt#6 need work
Tilt#6 = 45 miles
Total = 606 tilting miles so far..

Nice ride today , new pedal crank works a treat , very smooth ride no bangs/crashes/rattles etc mothers then a 2 mile detail for teacake.

Awaiting for arrival of mudguards as sleeves got very wet/dirty being directly in front of rear wheels.

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 272 miles - [semi] retired - proved tilting seat concept
Tilt#4 = 135 miles - retired - will be born again Tilt#6 ?
Tilt#5 = 82 miles - [semi] retired - still usable [ at present ] should Tilt#6 need work
Tilt#6 = 57 miles
Total = 618 tilting miles so far..

Nice ride today , till a mechanical reared it's ugly head.
Many moons ago when welding the BB into the frame it fell on the floor before it was tacked , when re-clamping the BB I did not notice I had reversed it ....
Today it started to unscrew , it had been no problem the 135 miles it did as a chain guide for the double BB beast [ and without a lock ring on it ], I assumed because the welding distorted the BB shell and the 2 pieces were very hard to screw in it would be fine.
Well no it came loose till the BB cup dropped out of the shell altogether ! I could still pedal it however it made a terrific clunk every pedal stroke , luckily I was within a mile and a half of home and I can free wheel a good 1/4 of that so gingerly I rode it home.
I screwed both cups in and attached a lock ring that I nipped up tight with a 1/2" chisel , I shall mark the BB if the lock-ring starts to move I will add some Locktite any colour recommendations ?

next up adding a mud flap to front wheel , brackets already welded on , should keep the frame a bit cleaner ?

Paul
 
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
3,981
Location
South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
Blue Loctite should be fine. :)
Glad you made it home OK.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Blue Loctite should be fine. :)
Thanks
Glad you made it home OK.
Whilst I had the tool to remove the crank I had nothing to tighten up the BB as it was a one piece and of course no locking ring , that was missing however probably of little value.

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 272 miles - [semi] retired - proved tilting seat concept
Tilt#4 = 135 miles - retired - will be born again Tilt#6 ?
Tilt#5 = 82 miles - [semi] retired - still usable [ at present ] should Tilt#6 need work
Tilt#6 = 69 miles
Total = 630 tilting miles so far..

Nearly had a punishable offense on Sunday , realised I needed to try the repaired BB and so rolled out of the garage and tried to swerve to miss SWMBO car when I found the steering locked up solid.
Emergency stop saved the day , seemed I had forgot to remove the ' Remove before flight steering lock ' [ aka a lump of wood wedged in the pivot ] DOH

So another to mums run and I am getting very dirty !



This is because I currently run a short mudguard on the front , not yet a full length one.



This because I have yet to fit a mudflap , see why the rod end bearings have a short life ! , although the Pegasus mounting method provides much more shielding than my original.



That stub behind the lower bearing is shielding the lower frame and combined with it's greater height it looks to be getting off lightly so far ?

I have found a trap I cannot get through [ 3 actually ] all on this path .



I have been through before although I thought only on the 2 wheeler , I got the first 90' left ok and the next 90' right saw me up against the far fence , no choice but to get off and struggle round with it.
However on exiting I looked at the post on the left of the exit , would you believe it has the inner corner missing at SA hub nut height ! so I have been through here before :giggle:
there was another one at the end of this path and yet another at the top of the path it joins grrrrr.
Can't be fun in a wheel chair either ?

all the best Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 272 miles - [semi] retired - proved tilting seat concept
Tilt#4 = 135 miles - retired - will be born again Tilt#6 ?
Tilt#5 = 82 miles - [semi] retired - still usable [ at present ] should Tilt#6 need work
Tilt#6 = 79 miles
Total = 640 tilting miles so far..

More pedaling today a slightly shortened route as it was -2c when I left !

using an online calculator wind chill down hill @ 15mph was -8c and on the flat @10 mph was -7c that was/is cold for the UK , I know you Northern Americans call those temperatures summer !

Sorted out some thermal under clothing and a windproof pair of gloves which might have worked if they had not been exactly the same size as the jacket cuffs so neither would nest inside the other allowing a icy blast into my wrist and sleeves !

Still we can't sit inside bemoaning the weather when we are :-
fit and well
retired
It's not raining
bored !
So out it was lovely sunrise and crisp frost , not dramas just a bit of seasonal wheelspin :LOL:

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 272 miles - [semi] retired - proved tilting seat concept
Tilt#4 = 135 miles - retired - will be born again Tilt#6 ?
Tilt#5 = 82 miles - [semi] retired - still usable [ at present ] should Tilt#6 need work
Tilt#6 = 91 miles
Total = 652 tilting miles so far..

So almost 100 miles on Tilt#6 nothing untoward happened Friday except EVER WHERE was closed no friends for coffee no cafe for breakfast no engineer in his little shed so I had a slow ride home and more time with the wide and dog ...

This video [ old ] of the Velotilt [ worth watching as is quite good ] , does show it unexpectadly tilting when riding straight and earlier how one of the riders was proud of being to ride it hands free for a short time.


They [ many ] had spent hours and hours of ' engineering ' work to get it to this state , so as one man in a shed in 10 months I ain't doing to badly !

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 272 miles - [semi] retired - proved tilting seat concept
Tilt#4 = 135 miles - retired - will be born again Tilt#6 ?
Tilt#5 = 82 miles - [semi] retired - still usable [ at present ] should Tilt#6 need work
Tilt#6 = 103 miles
Total = 665 tilting miles so far..

Mondays ride was fine from a trike point of view , and reached 100 miles on Tilt#6 👍:LOL:.

However someone with more money than sense had stopped at the local hardware store and bough 2 huge plastic tubs of emulsion paint......

They made it around 2 corners before dumping the expensive paint off the car roof right on to a narrow part of the footpath.

Both burst open , before I realised that the paint was still wet I drove through both mounds one with each rear wheel , luckily I missed both with the front wheel as that would have been really messy !
I had white paint up both arms , elbow to neck on my best waterproof jacket DOH.

It washed off at mothers when I got there.

otherwise going well Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
No ride today as despite Dan's assertions that I ride in any weather I don't intentionally go out in rain !



So lets look at this instead of a boring bike ride report.

This is the mule built to develop the Quatrovelo :-



So you can see the routing for the chain and how close the suspension towers are to riders knee's
At the rear if looks like they have added some elbow guards I assume they represent the inner wheel arches on the real thing , so it will be quite tight inside for the rider , however it can carry quite a bit of luggage.

Keep safe Paul
 
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
3,981
Location
South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
No ride today as despite Dan's assertions that I ride in any weather I don't intentionally go out in rain !



So lets look at this instead of a boring bike ride report.

This is the mule built to develop the Quatrovelo :-



So you can see the routing for the chain and how close the suspension towers are to riders knee's
At the rear if looks like they have added some elbow guards I assume they represent the inner wheel arches on the real thing , so it will be quite tight inside for the rider , however it can carry quite a bit of luggage.

Keep safe Paul
I looks like a most uncomfortable and cramped ride to me. No thanks.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Ok so time I bit the bullet and built a custom 2/4 pannier rack for the rear of Til#6 ?



There are 2 M8 holes in the rear cross member seems a good idea to pick those up to mount the front end of the rack ?
So A and B will be tubes with flat bar ends with m8 holes to fasten them to the cross member.
They will be tied with a cross piece when the angles have been determined.



The black tubing will make an outside perimeter that the panniers will clip over facing inwards ? on the face of it a conventional style rack in the short term may be easier to make however the panniers are harder to use as their tops over lap each other and there will be no room for another pannier between then [ in this there maybe ? ] and I hope it gives me upper mount for the mudguards something a conventional rack won't do ?



the pannier can just fit onto this length of black tube , however the green line shows the path behind the seat and so the tubing may have to be further forward to get the pannier to clear the seat when it tilts [ the seat tilts you know ! ].
The rod needs to be mounted so the pannier clears the brake cable etc and also is sat slightly above the cross member to stop them touching [ else bad things happen [ take my word for it ]]

So need to make arms A and B and join black tubes at back to achieve a width of slightly less than 20" [ width of rear cross member ]

toodle-pip Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,575
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 272 miles - [semi] retired - proved tilting seat concept
Tilt#4 = 135 miles - retired - will be born again Tilt#6 ?
Tilt#5 = 82 miles - [semi] retired - still usable [ at present ] should Tilt#6 need work
Tilt#6 = 115 miles
Total = 677 tilting miles so far..

So had a mechanical and a rather embarrassing moment on what should have been a routine ride ?

About where I encountered the paint I noticed a loud thunk coming it appeared from the drive train.
Immediately I looked at the black index marks I had added to the reassembled BB :-



I can see them from the seat and they have not moved yet ?
Bit more investigation confirmed it was not every pedal stroke [ as the BB unwinding problem ] but every 2.5 to 3 pedal revolutions , must be a stiff link so carried on happily for a bit.
Till I glanced down at the chain and could see a lump pass forwards in the top run just after the clunk , closer investigation revealed this



I proudly show you evidence of ' The weakest link ' now at this point I was 2 miles from mothers up a steepish hill . although it was mainly a free wheel when over the hill.
So I gingerly set off....
Now an embarrassing event occurred climbing the hill , even in my crippled state I easily caught up to a young lady , in knee length boots tight jeans short furry jacket and flouncy hair [ you get the picture ] as a courtesy I announced I was going to pass her on the left [ she was walking well over to the right ] when halfway through my warning when I spotted a complete banana on the path in front of the trike so like a berk I finnished my warning with a lusty ' watch the banana ' I mean what was I thinking. I could feel my ears burning before I passed her luckily I was wearing a hat !

So got to mothers OK and proceeded to struggle with the link , fortune was on my side in that I always make the chain over long which meant I could safely just remove 2 links and rejoin.
However this is not easy on the python as the chain runs are very short 20" wheels etc and I also learned my chain tool on the multi-tool is very hard to use in such a small chain run.
Of course if I carried a quick link the fix could have been much quicker as the chain tool easily broke the chain and only struggled to rejoin it.
This is all of my own making as it is the ' bodge 2 different brand chains together ' for a quick lap of the estate that seemed to have failed after 115 miles :whistle:

Paul
 
Top