My life with Python trikes Mk1 , Mk1.5 , Mk2 ?

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Ok out with the power tools [ sod it being Sunday ! ] bit of cutting and welding later :-



We have a brace/gusset it is not welded on all sides as I could not be ar**d to remove the wheel or the upper bolt however the 4 longest sides are welded , that should hold it [ I'm no Chris Hoy ! ]



The problems I am having designing a new front end stem from the seat height/BB relationship , I have now reached [ well exceeded ] the height you can get from a 20" wheel mounted in a 20" MTB suspension rear end.

As you raise the BB it starts to move towards the seat , now this is fine for the pixie on here with his ankles connected directly to his knees [ you know who you are ] however if you have a normal inside leg measurement you cannot keep moving the seat back to get the leg length right.

So the answer seems to be to use a bigger wheeled rear end although it could probably still have a 20" wheel in if needed , or we could go to 24" ?

Now this is a 24" rear end , although it has a odd shape and so is as long rear axle to BB as a 26" rear frame.



So with no jiggery pokery we can achieve the same height as in the botched front end and still have the axle in the same place ?



These are not quite in line the new one wants to be to the left about 2" then with a little bit of creative design I should be able to shave an 1" off the pivot design and it could fit in the same space ?

more musing needed Paul

ps Tilt#4 needs 4 x M12 locknuts on the pivot - 2 x M8 locknuts on the BB extension - move over the pannier rack and flag/reflector holder from Tilt#3 and hopefully it will be ridable Wednesday all being well.
 
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You may find that your ready-made triangle is indeed your best bet. It is guaranteed to have no chain-line issues for a start. (y)
While the pivot side of it might (to some eyes) look a bit kludgy ;)
If it gets you where you want to be, why the heck not?
At least you are getting significant miles in and gaining a good feel for the "Pilot-tilt-Perfect-Python-paradigm" (try saying it 6 times) ;)
 
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Tilter #3 = 182 miles

Engine seemed happier today although gearing down a little for some of the hills , getting hot !

trike did as advertised on the tin ?

Did some Pythoning
................Tilting
................Got me there
................Got me back

Paul

ps might be a shame not to do 200 miles on it ? Wednesday and Friday of this week should do it ?
 
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Tilt#3 = 194 miles

Engine seemed happier today although gearing down a little for some of the hills , getting hot !

trike did as advertised on the tin ?

Did some Pythoning
................Tilting
................Got me there
................Got me back

Paul

ps might be a shame not to do 200 miles on it ? Wednesday down and Friday to go , should do it ?
 
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Tilt#3 = 204 miles

Engine seemed happier today although gearing down a little for some of the hills , getting hot hill climbing !

trike did as advertised on the tin ?

Did some Pythoning
................Tilting
................Got me there
................Got me back

Announcing a very small very last minute Zombie meeting , possibly only 2 ! however all are welcome.
St Ives , Cambridgeshire Tue , Wed & Thur yes we might get wet , yes it might be cold however memories are not made by sitting indoors wishing you could do something !

Paul
 
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Tilt#3 = 238 miles

So put about 34 miles on it @ St Ives with DannyC

Tilt#3 = 250 miles

Usual trip to Mothers nice to be out in the fresh air.

Despite the trikes usual reliability Dan missed a mild malfunction when on the way back from mothers a upper rod end bolt loosened slightly and caused the front end to swing vertically about 1" either side of vertical , quick spanner job and back on the road.

Paul
 
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Tilt#3 = 238 miles

So put about 34 miles on it @ St Ives with DannyC

Tilt#3 = 250 miles

Usual trip to Mothers nice to be out in the fresh air.

Despite the trikes usual reliability Dan missed a mild malfunction when on the way back from mothers a upper rod end bolt loosened slightly and caused the front end to swing vertically about 1" either side of vertical , quick spanner job and back on the road.

Paul
Drat I miss all the good exciting bits. :)
 
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Ok so today's job ?



Making Tilt#4 ridable by stripping the needed parts from Tilt#3 , the beauty of incremental changes and keeping as much as it as possible the same ;)

So transferred the seat lighting bar [ DannyC I found the constant squeak that plagued me for days ? M8 bolt loose in upper seat mount :mad: ]
transferred rear pannier rack and flag mount , later not need.
Move clipped pedals over.



Swapped twist grip for a bar end shifter to get the brake lever higher , the gears are low however in Tilt#2 guise I did 72 miles on it so it must be ok for around here.
Adjusted the brakes and gears and added mirrors etc
Done another 4 laps in local estate tweaking bars and controls mainly.

Unsure why however I feel apprehensive about Mondays ride despite doing about 2 miles on Tilt#4 today again with no surprises.



It maybe be this ? the turning circle is insane probably about 8 feet ! or even less !!
I need to find someway of measuring it , I can actually sit on it and tilt the front over nearly as far as this whilst stationary and it just sits there with me upright waiting to pedal off.

DannyC saw Tilt#3 behaving well , sadly has was about 5" to short in the leg department to ride it , and there was no way I could shorten it that much for him to try it.
I did ride it briefly no hands to show it's stability and later he followed it watching the underneath trike rising and falling with me staying upright , sadly no video.

Paul
 
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So transferred the seat lighting bar [ DannyC I found the constant squeak that plagued me for days ? M8 bolt loose in upper seat mount :mad: ]
Ha! Glad you finally nailed the blighter. :D
 
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DannyC saw Tilt#3 behaving well , sadly has was about 5" to short in the leg department to ride it , and there was no way I could shorten it that much for him to try it.
I did ride it briefly no hands to show it's stability and later he followed it watching the underneath trike rising and falling with me staying upright , sadly no video.
Yes, we mentioned setting up a shot so you could come past and do a tight/tilted turn that I could film on my phone and upload to You-Tube; but somehow we never got round to it. :(
 
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Ha! Glad you finally nailed the blighter. :D
Hmmm

Not going to do me much good if Tilt#4 proves to be a goer it is retired from service ?

Paul
 
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Ok I announce the inaugural ride of Tilt#4

Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 250 miles - retired - proved tilting concept
Tilt#4 = 12 miles



Obligatory picture Mansfield boundary about 1.3 mile from home.



and obligatory water shot now about 5.57 miles from home.



Free standing no tilt lock no hands about to leave mothers 7.79 miles from home.

So what about the ride ?
Well it was odd , half the time I was concerned the trike was tall and narrow and the other half I was to busy to worry about it.
Despite the tilting being exactly the same as Tilt#3 , just the lower spine is about 7" higher it seemed I was tilting further ? was that because I was sat higher up ?
There is no reference point that tells you you are higher up , the tilting worked fine and there were no OH sh*t moments at all.

I realised this was narrow and tall as I normally have quite a bit of the rear wheels in the wing mirrors . however if I adjusted the wing mirrors to see the wheels there was almost no rear view as they were pointing inwards !
I confirmed how narrow it actually was when I realised I could see the OUTSIDE of the rear wheel hubs in the mirrors !

I asked my friend for a picture to try and confirm this ?



Now if the wing mirrors can get through the gap I can on the trike ! if the gap is smaller retract the mirrors and pull my elbows in !



See the can in the top right ? that is the position of the outside of the righthand wheel after I started with it touching the curb and did a 180' turn , that measured a outside diameter for the turn of 10ft ! [ 3.048 metres ] so inside was 8ft 👍:LOL:

I will tackle a couple of the narrow barriers on a future ride , Monday's ride is busy as I carry the tea cakes for the coffee stop at a mates...

Obviously there are only 7 gears available so no high speed stuff , except free wheeling down hills , seems quite stable and no chain issues despite the clunky extra chain wheel.

Adjusted the brakes a bit better on my return and put a better changer on the rear cassette , otherwise good to go.

I need to check the bars I am not sure they maybe to far forward and not tall enough , I will compare them to Tilt#3 which seemed a better cockpit than Tilt#4.

So next up is a better front end with 2 mechs etc and maybe a bit less weight and more finesse ?

regards Paul

ps removed nice Shimano levers from Tilt#3 and replaced them with some cheaper plastic ones , took Tilt#3 for a blast to ensure it changes ok , where's the steering lock gone ! [ I miss that already ! ]
 
Last edited:
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Ok I announce the inaugural ride of Tilt#4

Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 250 miles - retired - proved tilting concept
Tilt#4 = 12 miles



Obligatory picture Mansfield boundary about 1.3 mile from home.



and obligatory water shot now about 5.57 miles from home.



Free standing no tilt lock no hands about to leave mothers 7.79 miles from home.

So what about the ride ?
Well it was odd , half the time I was concerned the trike was tall and narrow and the other half I was to busy to worry about it.
Despite the tilting being exactly the same as Tilt#3 , just the lower spine is about 7" higher it seemed I was tilting further ? was that because I was sat higher up ?
There is no reference point that tells you you are higher up , the tilting worked fine and there were no OH sh*t moments at all.

I realised this was narrow and tall as I normally have quite a bit of the rear wheels in the wing mirrors . however if I adjusted the wing mirrors to see the wheels there was almost no rear view as they were pointing inwards !
I confirmed how narrow it actually was when I realised I could see the OUTSIDE of the rear wheel hubs in the mirrors !

I asked my friend for a picture to try and confirm this ?



Now if the wing mirrors can get through the gap I can on the trike ! if the gap is smaller retract the mirrors and pull my elbows in !



See the can in the top right ? that is the position of the outside of the righthand wheel after I started with it touching the curb and did a 180' turn , that measured a outside diameter for the turn of 10ft ! [ 3.048 metres ] so inside was 8ft 👍:LOL:

I will tackle a couple of the narrow barriers on a future ride , Monday's ride is busy as I carry the tea cakes for the coffee stop at a mates...

Obviously there are only 7 gears available so no high speed stuff , except free wheeling down hills , seems quite stable and no chain issues despite the clunky extra chain wheel.

Adjusted the brakes a bit better on my return and put a better changer on the rear cassette , otherwise good to go.

I need to check the bars I am not sure they maybe to far forward and not tall enough , I will compare them to Tilt#3 which seemed a better cockpit than Tilt#4.

So next up is a better front end with 2 mechs etc and maybe a bit less weight and more finesse ?

regards Paul

ps removed nice Shimano levers from Tilt#3 and replaced them with some cheaper plastic ones , took Tilt#3 for a blast to ensure it changes ok , where's the steering lock gone ! [ I miss that already ! ]
Looks like a nice ride Paul. Well done that man!
 
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So next up is a better front end with 2 mechs etc and maybe a bit less weight and more finesse ?
Are you going to use two front derailleurs? Whilst I agree one will not likely work on the existing rings due to their proximity two will need to be synchronised to some extent with one cable being split into two. A reworking of the front would be a better option to remove the idler rings. Or have I misunderstood?
 
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Or have I misunderstood?
Not really I have not explained it very well , I mean 1 front and 1 rear derailleur.
It is so hilly where I live I need at least 2 front rings to get a low enough GI to climb them.

A 24" drive wheel will bring big problems as well and may need a Megarange 34T and a front ring of 24T to get low enough.
However it may look cool !

Paul
 
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Then you may have issues with a front derailleur with the current idler. It's very close to the front rings and may work against any attempt to move the chain between cogs. You may need to rework the front to remove the idlers.
 
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Popshot
So next up is a better front end with 2 mechs etc and maybe a bit less weight and more finesse ?
By that I meant ' completely new ' based on this :-



Much like the one DannyC is currently angest'ing over , however we are going down the same road for different reasons.
For DannyC it will help with his length challenged inside leg and humongous seat height.
For me it will help with the seat height as I want the pedals level of above the height of the seat , however having a ' normal ' inside leg I will have to increase the wheel base to keep the seat in the same place however there will be no increase in length [ a paradox , nah ! ]

Paul
 
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Another ride , more miles...

Tilt#2 = 72 miles - retired - dangerous
Tilt#3 = 250 miles - retired - proved tilting concept
Tilt#4 = 25 miles

A diversion to a farm shop added another mile to the route.

Beginning a snagging list :-
Squeaking upper BB [louder than DannyC's knee ! ] seems the M8 bolts are ovalising in the holes , probably needs an inner tube plug welding inside purple piece and then plug welding through M8 holes - something for after holiday me thinks.

Seems one of the brakes [ or both ] are sticking on , I suspect it is a combination of turning tightly and pulling hard on the levers - need to ride around the estate and try and replicate the problem.

The brakes are noisy ? seems I have a rattle probably coming from the adjusters/cable end clamps - no sure how to fix that ?

Otherwise no real issues plenty of difficult maneuvers done safely/easily despite the height.

Paul
 
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Beginning a snagging list :-
Squeaking upper BB [louder than DannyC's knee ! ]
Nahhh... my Knee "crackles & pops like bowl of Rice-Cripsies and there's a nasty "click" to go with it. No fun at all. :(
 
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