My life with Python trikes Mk1 , Mk1.5 , Mk2 ?

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When this is done I will have 2 tilters AND a Flevo trike , obviously to many to test myself , so I will box one up and send it to you !
Then you can also right a comprehensive ride report ?
Which do you fancy the most ?

Paul
I fear they are far too big for a little chap like me. I doubt I could reach the pedals. ;)
 
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I fear they are far too big for a little chap like me. I doubt I could reach the pedals. ;)
I see Mr Clarke you have not read the small print properly [ see what I did there ? ]

You would be getting a lower spine with 2 elastomer holes and an attached 12mm rod end bearing.
An upper spine also with 2 elastomer holes and an attachment for 12mm rod end bearing and a mounting plate for a Python front end.

You fashion a bolt on rear end of your desired width.
2 elastomers
a seat
a bolt on Python front end

if it ends up ' too big for a little chap like me. I doubt I could reach the pedals ' , then YOU have done somethink wrong !

Paul
 
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I see Mr Clarke you have not read the small print properly [ see what I did there ? ]

You would be getting a lower spine with 2 elastomer holes and an attached 12mm rod end bearing.
An upper spine also with 2 elastomer holes and an attachment for 12mm rod end bearing and a mounting plate for a Python front end.

You fashion a bolt on rear end of your desired width.
2 elastomers
a seat
a bolt on Python front end

if it ends up ' too big for a little chap like me. I doubt I could reach the pedals ' , then YOU have done somethink wrong !

Paul
No I missed what you were driving/cycling at.
I'm all good down here though, thanks all the same. :)
 
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Hi all

Well Tuesdays post #878 proposed a Python trike where only the seat tilted , due to the sheer versatility of the ' Meccano Python ' is has been completed and been given 2 snagging rides.



See the front tilted over [ Python pivot ] seat remains vertical



This is the complete ' old Mk1 Python ' however the rear spine has been extended and the rear wheels now bolt on similar [ however less elegantly ] than the front end !



This is the ' new ' part it consists of the seat fastened to a re-purposed MBB front frame piece [ see DannyC I told you that gusset around the head tube might come in handy ! ] mounted on 2 elastomer's from Tilter 2
This decouples the tilting seat completely from the steering and removes all the weight of the steering front end from the tilting part.



A bit of tilt ?

I have done about 1/2 a mile on this and am so confident of it's handling and abilities I will take to mothers tomorrow if I get time for a bit of maintenance , chain oiling and brakes adjusted a bit better etc etc

So how does it ride ? well great.

The bars are on the steering part and cause NO tilting problems at all , I can tilt anytime even going straight and level and I can correct the tilt either with a bit of ' body English ' or a light touch on the bars.
I can lean into corners , however I have the choice and don't have to lean to get it to corner [ still got the wide rear end and a seat probably 11" from the deck ? ]

Previously after approx 6 trips to mothers [ about 70+ miles ] I found the flaw in the Tilting Mk2 , I was unable to safely control the steering because the bars were on the non-steering part of the trike.
Subsequently I found it almost impossible to control the tilt with the bars moved on the steering part.

Lengthy discussion with DannyC raised the question why not just tilt the seat hence this hurried prototype and it seems to work , I have not got on any of the others and felt at home so quickly.

So far the only downside to this one appears to be a loss of the zoom - tilt - turn & cut up corners like a jet fighter riding style , I think this came from the front AND rider tilting together and the tilt producing it's own steering component ?

As that was never part of the brief then I can live with that , maybe it will still come with riding ?

all for now Paul

ps why so long ? my other Python was 40" w/b this is 48" DannyC reported a strange phenomena where his Python would climb up the camber on a road very strongly making it unsafe to ride in traffic.
His solution was to shorten the trike , however other Python's have been built much longer without reporting the same problems.
So this is my attempt to look into it , DannyC will be along shortly with the actually length of his Python.
Mine may have to be shortened if it won't go in and out of the traffic barriers I meet.
 
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So this is my attempt to look into it , DannyC will be along shortly with the actually length of his Python.
The wheelbase of my "non camber climbing" Python is 40". It's a little bob-tailed runt of a thing after surgery.
The wheelbase when it climbed the cambers was about 48" or greater. But My Python's have PPP's (very low friction) and a 67° pivot angle whereas Paul's have a pivot angle of 56°.
 
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Popshot - thanks however need some miles before breaking out the champagne :LOL:

Danny - well as my first was 36" and I only went to 40" to carry the camping gear ......
Although all things are bigger ' darn sarf ' so I am told !

Ventist added
clipped pedals
brakes adjusted
chain oiled
broken wing mirror swapped
tyres pumped up

No excuse not to fire up the Quattro !

Paul
 
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Popshot - thanks however need some miles before breaking out the champagne :LOL:

Danny - well as my first was 36" and I only went to 40" to carry the camping gear ......
Although all things are bigger ' darn sarf ' so I am told !

Ventist added
clipped pedals
brakes adjusted
chain oiled
broken wing mirror swapped
tyres pumped up

No excuse not to fire up the Quattro !

Paul
We look forward to the ride-report.
 
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Tilter #3 = 12 miles

So I set of to mothers on it !



Obligatory leaving Mansfield behind shot , before I got back on this is ahead of me



Tight right hander camber running up to my right [ or trying to sweep me off the path into the gutter ] 40 - 50mph traffic on my left.

No drama i braked a little the trike went where it was pointed and we got around safely , the camber had no effect at all.

usual ' stopped by a lake picture '



You can see the extra pannier added behind the seat and the shear length of the beast.



This is one of the 2 sections where I REALLY need steering handle bars , the path is maybe 12" wider than the current trike width again 40-50 mph traffic and for over half the distance no escape lane.
This is narrow beyond where you can see to.
To far to the left and you run the risk of dropping off the curb = roll over to the left
To far to the right and get the right rear wheel up on the grass = roll over to the left
it takes it out of you trying to keep it straight with leg steering only.

Today it was a breeze , still need to concentrate but much more room for error.

Got to mothers safely and called at friends on way home , so how was ride ?

Oh sh*t moments 0/10
Enjoyment 10/10
adventure 10/10
interesting 10/10

In no particular order :-

The ride had lots of stop get up and get back on , pictures , help a girl cyclist etc
it always feels weird when you first sit in the seat
it seems to move much to easily left or right
No problem getting your feet on the pedals
no drama setting off

It is now slightly odd that the seat does not follow the front end [ as it has done for the last 70+ miles ]
the under frame is still very lively [ moving in a roll direction left and right ] not felt through the seat of my pants
I once tilted when approaching a corner and was puzzled the trike was not turning :whistle: till I realised I had to make it turn DOH !

There is some tilt stops built in and they are very comforting ? my thighs hit the steering levers by then I have enough tilt to be safe and would not want anymore so that is good.

The elastomer's make for a very comfortable ride once you accept the strange sort of waterbed feeling of detachment.

I cannot ride it hands free at the moment , I was pipped at and was able to raise one hand and wave just !
It is the usual problem no bars on the non-tilting part to hold the tilt in check , I believe that may come with more seat time and I would like to get to a situation where I can ride hands free , leg steering , that may not be possible as moving the hips around in the seat can initiate tilting we shall see...

All for now , more miles next week Paul
 
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Tilter #3 = 12 miles

So I set of to mothers on it !



Obligatory leaving Mansfield behind shot , before I got back on this is ahead of me



Tight right hander camber running up to my right [ or trying to sweep me off the path into the gutter ] 40 - 50mph traffic on my left.

No drama i braked a little the trike went where it was pointed and we got around safely , the camber had no effect at all.

usual ' stopped by a lake picture '



You can see the extra pannier added behind the seat and the shear length of the beast.



This is one of the 2 sections where I REALLY need steering handle bars , the path is maybe 12" wider than the current trike width again 40-50 mph traffic and for over half the distance no escape lane.
This is narrow beyond where you can see to.
To far to the left and you run the risk of dropping off the curb = roll over to the left
To far to the right and get the right rear wheel up on the grass = roll over to the left
it takes it out of you trying to keep it straight with leg steering only.

Today it was a breeze , still need to concentrate but much more room for error.

Got to mothers safely and called at friends on way home , so how was ride ?

Oh sh*t moments 0/10
Enjoyment 10/10
adventure 10/10
interesting 10/10

In no particular order :-

The ride had lots of stop get up and get back on , pictures , help a girl cyclist etc
it always feels weird when you first sit in the seat
it seems to move much to easily left or right
No problem getting your feet on the pedals
no drama setting off

It is now slightly odd that the seat does not follow the front end [ as it has done for the last 70+ miles ]
the under frame is still very lively [ moving in a roll direction left and right ] not felt through the seat of my pants
I once tilted when approaching a corner and was puzzled the trike was not turning :whistle: till I realised I had to make it turn DOH !

There is some tilt stops built in and they are very comforting ? my thighs hit the steering levers by then I have enough tilt to be safe and would not want anymore so that is good.

The elastomer's make for a very comfortable ride once you accept the strange sort of waterbed feeling of detachment.

I cannot ride it hands free at the moment , I was pipped at and was able to raise one hand and wave just !
It is the usual problem no bars on the non-tilting part to hold the tilt in check , I believe that may come with more seat time and I would like to get to a situation where I can ride hands free , leg steering , that may not be possible as moving the hips around in the seat can initiate tilting we shall see...

All for now , more miles next week Paul
Sounds like a success in the making. Well done.
 
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Sounds like a success in the making. Well done.
I have looked back , first ride of any form of tilting Python was on March 18th that is 128 days and 15 pages of posts away from here !

Paul
 
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I have looked back , first ride of any form of tilting Python was on March 18th that is 128 days and 15 pages of posts away from here !

Paul
Seems like only yesterday. :)
Lots of tweaks and refinements, your perseverance has paid off.
 
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Hi all

Tilter #3 = 24 miles

Oh sh*t moments 0/10
Enjoyment 10/10
adventure 10/10
interesting 10/10

Although the engine seemed particularly lack luster this morning the ride was made and without mishap.

I have now ridden twice down the road where I had my near death experience , I can see on the speedo I reach about 20mph without pedaling.
I have been forced to go on the road due to utility works messing up the only footpath , now I have my hands on the bars I can feel several strong kicks due to poor road surface seconds before I nearly lost control.

So all in all looking fine so far.

This is today's work ?



Adding to 3mm side plates to the pivot from the second frame , these will go inside the frame and allow the pivot to be raised from 5" off the deck to 10"



So this is the main frame clamped to the workmate @ 0'

This is the part shown first clamped up for a 56' pivot angle ?



Close enough for rock and roll :LOL:(y)



3 side of each plate welded just got to figure out how to reach the inside weld [ near the bolt hole ] then I can trim the sharp points off and slap some paint on it......

Dan if you look at the tyre you can see the slit where the green guard is visible , piece of glass I reckon , as you can see sadly plenty of life left in the tyre.

We are getting there slowly.

Paul
 
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Hi all

So got the welds finished before I walked the dog :whistle:👍



Took 4 pieces of wood and 6 clamps to get it into a position where I could apply the warming stick..



pleasant welding thou as the box is over thick @ 2mm and the plate is 3mm , in a lot of places I held the torch with both hands ' a la ' MIG and just let the 3mm slump into the 2mm :)

off for my breakfast cafe walk.

Paul
 
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Hi all

Tilter #3 = 40 miles

Oh sh*t moments 0/10
Enjoyment 10/10
adventure 10/10
interesting 10/10

Did the long way out and back so a few more miles , not done the whole of that journey back in living memory [ which is shrinking all the time :whistle: ] found with the longer wheelbase and wider rear end I can't get through some of the barriers in reverse hey ho.

Least now the bars are on the steering part when I Flintstone backwards I can at least steer the front end , so do a 3-4-6 point shuffle.

Narrower and shorter should fix that.

Paul
 
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Ok so further mocking up to decide where to go next.



So this is most of the Mk2 tilter but with a narrower rear end and the front re-modeled to get the centre part horizontal which raises the pivot by about 5"



Picture looks deceptive however both main beam and front by the axle are @ 0' [ or as close as I intend to get :whistle: ]

As DannyC is in a hurry for ride reports it would be expedient to get this on the road ?

Seeing as I consider the Mk3 to be easier to ride the Mk2 could be cut up to achieve that ? maybe ?



It is complicated as the 2 overlapping parts have lots on internal obstructions to cutting and effectively shutting :LOL:.

Also as shown it is 45" w/b and it wants to be 40" w/b and at the rear this main tube will need to go on top of the dead axle to keep the main tube horizontal ? see first picture.

Not sure whether horizontal is to make the seat keep the same height when slid along the tube or to stop the pivot angle changing with a sloping top tube or just atheistic's ?

So cut as marked join back together with some internal strengthening and then look at the situation again.

This will give a 24" track and approx seat height of <> 15" , original has 28" track and 8" seat height.

Paul
 
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Hi all

Tilter #3 = 52 miles

Oh sh*t moments 0/10
Enjoyment 10/10
adventure 10/10
interesting 10/10

No real surprise's just learning to live with it and getting the most from it.

When pedaling up hill I can balance just by placing my thumbs on the tops of the handle bars , now on the face of this that seems real progress however that has to be tempered by the other things that seem to be happening.

I have noticed there are some times when I am hauling on the bars to alter the tilt...
It happens briefly and is over so quickly I have not been able to establish why I am doing it ?
I could be trying to make it tilt
Stop it tilting
or
increasing the amount of tilt I already have.

My gut feeling is I am trying to stop it tilting when I feel it wants to ?

The other thing I think I am doing is beginning to tilt before I turn , I read somewhere it is easier to turn whilst already tilted than let the turn start to initiate a tilt opposite to the turn direction ?

Paul
 
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Ok so yesterday was a triumph , how may days do you set out to do something and have time to do more ? couldn't have been a better ' every think went right day ' if it tried !



I got the 2 parts of main frame trimmed cleaned up , 8 holes drilled for plug welds to hold the inner strengthening piece in and did the 8 holes and 6" of welding around the square tube and never had to sharpen the Tungsten once [ admittedly it was a bit blunt when I finished :whistle: ]



Welds are even good enough to show on here , strewth ;)👍

The nose is a little high in the picture as at the rear the tubes want overlapping not being butted up , this will also shorten in by 1.5" and we will be spot on 40" w/b

BUT look at the sky under the main boom it will be approx 11" from the deck...



Instead of the current 5"

Next up makes some mounts for seat sub-frame on new boom
and make some brake back plate fixings

Paul

ps don't it look nice without all the clutter/dirt and general wear and tear.
 
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Hi all

Tilter #3 = 64 miles

Oh sh*t moments 0/10
Enjoyment 10/10
adventure 10/10
interesting 10/10

So now it is becoming routine.

I have sorted out the balancing :-

using thumbs only on the bars to balance - this is on the parts of the ride that just have a very slight camber for rain run off - so eventually I think these parts could become hands free over very close i.e short sections.

hauling on the bars

1) seems to be when I am on ordinary pavements where there are multiple drives/pedestrian ramps etc there are very sudden changes of camber lateral to the trike i.e across the wheels - it seems I cannot guess the amount of lean needed and sometimes get caught out and need some fast action to keep myself vertical

2) when moving through the traffic lights in the pedestrian paths - i.e some times I turn 90' left and the next turn is a 90' right in a very short distance, I haul on the bars to tilt to the right whilst still tilting to the left this requires some effort.

So nothing untoward and things I have to learn to live with so I have the other advantages that tilting gives me.

Paul
 
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2) when moving through the traffic lights in the pedestrian paths - i.e some times I turn 90' left and the next turn is a 90' right in a very short distance, I haul on the bars to tilt to the right whilst still tilting to the left this requires some effort.
Going a bit fast? ;)
 
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