High Roller frame size

Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
17
Location
Sydney Australia
Just got the plans from AZ and have a question regarding the monotube length
.
The plans say it should be 30 inches (760mm) from the headset back to the rear forks however the photos appear to show it longer.

So I imported the photo into Sketchup , scaled it to the right size and measured the length and it seems that it is about 900mm long, about 36 in. instead of 30 as per the plans.

Maybe after building and photgraphing the prototype the plans were revised?

I tried to insert the sketchup image into this message but it seems that I can only attach images which are on the web somewhere, this ones on my C drive!
Is there a way to insert images directly?

Anyway, is the correct dimension the 30in or the 36in .

Regards
Stewart
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
563
Location
Fernley, NV
Website
miscdotgeek.com
Hey Stewart, welcome to AZ!

First: A great way to get images here is to go to imgur.com, drag/drop the image into the website, and then right click the image and show it in a new tab. Grab the URL from your address bar and use that here. Works every time :)

I haven't built a High Roller so I don't know the exact answer, but in general I can tell you this: Trust the plans. They work. What Brad's was sized and what yours are sized are irrelevant. The plans work :)
 

Radical Brad

Garage Hacker!
Staff member
Joined
Mar 13, 1999
Messages
6,077
Location
Kakabeka Falls, Ontario, Canada
Hello, and thanks for your support!

I am not a Sketchup user, so I did the same thing in SolidWorks, just to verify for you...

4000

As a reference, I used the diameter of my 700cc wheel, which is just over 26" with a tire.
This isn't a perfect way to compare due to Nikon lens distortion, but you can see that the boom would definitely not be longer than 30".
I would say that something is wrong with the way sketchup attempts to use photos as a reference.

Thanks,
Brad
 
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
213
Location
Hillsboro, OR
I would figure a wheelbase of 48" and adjust the main tube length. Thats what I did on the High Roller that I built years ago and it worked out fine. Just just modified a Vision R40 to FWD with a wheelbase of 49". I'm 5' 9".
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
17
Location
Sydney Australia
Thanks everyone for your replies.
I have uploaded 2 images from Sketchup onto Flickr so hopefully you can now see.
I realised my original sketchup drawing was slightly the wrong scale as I based it on the wheels being 700mm dia instead of 650mm (26in) so the whole drawing was a bit big.
However even with this now corrected I still find that when measured over the photo the monotube length appears to be 85mm longer than the 760mm the plans show when superimposed over the image " Highroller 6"
The 760 is in green the extra 85 in red.

Interestingly when I reduce the wheelbase to1200mm ( 48" ) as Irv suggests the monotube seems about the right 760mm length. I think I will do the same as I am about the same height at 5'8". The sketch Highroller 7 shows this.
Brad I will import your drawing into sketchup and see how it compares .

I know there is a bit of flexibility so the dimensions are not that critical providing I keep the 73 degrees head angle.

On a different issue has anyone put rear suspension on the high roller, something similar to the Tricruiser plan on the AZ website.

Regards
Stewart

Just tried to insert the images but it didnt let me, got a message saying "something went wrong ,try again or contact the administrator"
It did allow me to insert a link to the flickr site.

https://flic.kr/p/2hCqvgn https://flic.kr/p/2hCqwuu
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
17
Location
Sydney Australia
Just imported Brads photo into sketchup and traced over it. Dimensions are 30" for the monotube as the plans show, this results in a wheel base pretty much 1200mm or 4'.
However while the 73 deg steering angle seems right the monotube appears to be not quite right angles to it.
Not sure what what causes the discrepancies, photo distortion I guess, anyway I will mock it up before I weld.
Regards
Stewart
https://flic.kr/p/2hCt4Vg
 

Radical Brad

Garage Hacker!
Staff member
Joined
Mar 13, 1999
Messages
6,077
Location
Kakabeka Falls, Ontario, Canada
The closer I take a photo, the more fish-eye distortion the lens will introduce.
Best plan... use the suggested dimensions, but adjust to your own liking.
Nothing is too critical.

Cheers,
Brad
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
17
Location
Sydney Australia
Another question
I have cut the headset off the donor bike, a giant rincon and I want to remove the ballbearings to grease them/
I think it is a cartridge type, any tips how to remove and replace it
Regards
Stewart
https://flic.kr/p/2hHeXbD
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
2,384
Location
Wakefield, UK
They should just lever out with a screwdriver but if they won't budge put the widest bit of wood you can fit through one bearing that will reach the bottom one and knock the bottom one out from above with a hammer. Use the hammer/wood at several points around the bearing. They'll press in with a moderate tap from a hammer and again a wooden intermediary. Using a wooden bit reduces the risk of damage. The bearings themselves ought to be sealed but that doesn't stop crap getting all around them
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
17
Location
Sydney Australia
Thanks Popshot
Turns out they are not cartridge but the bearings just sit inside the race which is press fitted into the head tube. The top part of the race is retained by a thin metal ring which fits inside a groove in the bottom race. Getting this out without damaging it was difficult but not impossible, I put a thin screwdriver between the outside of the top race and the retaining ring and by twisting it prised the ring out.
Not sure about getting it back in.

I think? it is mainly to hold everything in place during assembly but not necessary once the whole stem and forks are in place.
I see in the instructions that the welding is done without the bearings in place, so I will wait until after that stage before reinstalling. the instruction pictures show the races in the head tube left in place while welding, I guess this helps with preventing distortion.

Attached a few photos and a drawing, it might help someone in the future.

Regards
Stewart
https://flic.kr/p/2hHxB1D https://flic.kr/p/2hHwvYW https://flic.kr/p/2hHwwJt
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
17
Location
Sydney Australia
Questions about suspension.

The AZ design calls for using front forks for the rear chain stays however since I have only one donor bike from which I will use the front forks for the front I have to find another solution for the rear.
I am thinking of having a suspension of some sort on the rear since I cant stand up on the pedals to absorb the potholes.

One option is to build the rear forks out of the 40x40 frame steel material and use a rubber door stop as a "spring".
This is not unlike the rubber wedge that the Moulton uses, as shown in my photo of a very dusty frame in my shed, the image from sketchup shows how this could work.

Another option is to modify the rear stays from the donor bike, the close up photo of the dropouts show how I can cut the seat stays off and reposition them, , the red shows how the seat stays could be repositioned, and the sketchup image shows how this could be used together with a spring to provide suspension.

Any advice on the options and specifically advice on what sort of hinge is needed, a simple bolt or bushings of some sort.

Regards
Stewart

Moulton rubber suspension
door stop suspension
dropouts
spring suspension

Just has a problem with inserting links to images, worked previously?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
2,384
Location
Wakefield, UK
Most cheap bikes that have rear suspension use a very basic bush and bolt system for the hinge, often alloy or brass. You could cut one off a donor or use something like these. I've never tried a rubber block system so can't compare except to say that most bikes I know of that used to use those are all in the past. A more modern air suspension unit can be set to whatever pressure is needed to spring comfortably. Adjusting a rubber block is probably much harder if possible at all.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
869
Location
Axedale, Victoria, Australia
Website
axerail.coffeecup.com
I have seen a DIY trike with nothing more than an elastomer block to smooth out the bumps. Haven't ridden it but it seemed to work well when someone else was riding it. How it would compare with a doorstop I have no idea.

My own experience is only with the typical, cheap, MTB spring shock that only has the spring and a pre-load mechanism and no rebound control. It works fine for me and I have no need to even think about high-priced air type shocks. So far, I have only used it on the rear wheel of a tadpole but am approaching the time when I will be considering what I do for the front. If I only rode on paved roads, I wouldn't consider front suspension but off-road is another matter.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,572
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Hi there

Problem with rubber is it limits the amount of travel you will get compared to some sort of spring ?

Look here :- http://www.dutchbikes.nl/pagina/ks2_drawing.htm they use a normal rear end and use the BB for the pivot , you could free the seat stays at the top of the seat tube and bend them down if you wanted to use the donor bike rear and reduce it's height ?



Download drawings with English notes , well draw and lots dimensions.

They use a rubber block but it could easily just be the spring removed froma MTB shocker , as the body of the cheap one's have no function apart from spring mounts.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
17
Location
Sydney Australia
Thanks for the replies
I will probably buy a cheap spring rear suspension unit an use that.
I have already cut off the bottom bracket from the rear stays to use as per the plans so cant use it for the pivot for a suspension, might try the PTFE bearing.
Already made up the seat from a very light ply and covered it with fibreglass for strength and made a timber mockup to work out seat pedal relationship.
https://flic.kr/p/2hLNXp2
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
4,572
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Thanks for the replies
I have already cut off the bottom bracket from the rear stays to use as per the plans so cant use it for the pivot for a suspension.
If you only have one donor frame you are making this build a lot harder than it should be !
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
17
Location
Sydney Australia
Thought its time for an update.
im still progressing though with the heat I only work in the shed on cooler days.

As vk3ckc's thread mentions there are fires throughout the east coast of Australia, temperatures into the high 40s.
I think the area of the fires is greater than the area of Wales in the UK to give you an idea of the scale.

As the photo shows I have the frame together.

I went with a sprung rear suspension with a cheap spring from the internet. I tested the spring to calculate its deflection with various weights so I could ensure that with my weight on the bike it would have the 73 degree angle on the front fork.

I made the seat moveable, 2 aluminium angles fixed to the base of the seat can slide along the montube frame.
This allows adjustment to the pedaling position and the ability to remove the seat for transport.

With the seat moveable I will make the bottom bracket location fixed, i have cut the monotube to take it, maybe weld tomorrow weather permitting.

The rear wheel in the picture comes from a neighbours bike he was throwing out, it only has a rear wheel which had a unused IRC Metro Duro tire 2inch, this by chance matches the tyre on the wheel borrowed from my bike which has the same tyre... but very well used.

assembled
Next steps are the handlebars, chain, brakes and gears.
As far as the chain goes what suggestions are there for the chain guide pulley. Th AZ plans suggest a pulley from fitness equipment or lawn mowers, any other ideas?

The other issue is cable stops, i see you can get pop rivet on types on the internet, anyone used these?

spring testing

ready for bottom bracket

test fit
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
869
Location
Axedale, Victoria, Australia
Website
axerail.coffeecup.com
Chain guide pulley: Depends on which side of the chain and how much the chain needs to deflect side to side to accommodate gear changes.

There are two basic types: Those with chain teeth (sprockets from donors) and those that are, effectively, just pulleys. Within those two types, the toothed ones will have to be able to move sideways movement to accommodate changing chain angles due to gearing, while the others just need to be wide enough for the chain movement.

The drive side of the chain (that which comes from the top of the driven sprocket), needs to work with considerable forces as it is the side with all the driving strain. The return side (that which goes to the bottom of the driven sprocket) only has the strain of what can be viewed as slack chain with only the derailleur chain tension.

Beyond that, you will need side flanges (for the drive side guide) and a keeper of some sort to stop the chain bouncing of the return pulley during exuberant riding that makes the return side of the chain slop around a bit.

I have only made up the toothed kind as I thought the none-toothed kind might chatter a bit, but I have thought of this idea as I type. If you need to make your own non-toothed kind, a roller of some sort made from discs cut from a plastic kitchen cutting board (to make whatever width you need), sandwiched between flat side flanges or metal ones similar to those pictured. Bolts through the flanges will hold it all together. The plastic board will hold bearings in place if you make them a tight fit and the side flanges will keep the whole assembly together yet still allow for bearing replacement if it ever becomes necessary.

 
Top