Ed's 'StreetRunner' Quad Build

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Oct 19, 2012
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Wakefield, UK
The only one I have experience of had a thumb throttle and pedal assist. The assist was fairly smooth and proportional to the choice of setting but the throttle was closer to an on/off button. You could get part throttle but it felt nearer a two step half power or full option.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
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Axedale, Victoria, Australia
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axerail.coffeecup.com
Can't remember what my throttle experience was except that when I removed it, its operation was not being sensed. On installation, I had to cobble up a wiring harness extension for the trike and probably bumped it some months afterwards and caused a disconnection. The display indicated a throttle error. The same fault occurred to the rear wheel speed sensor and I know it was a dodgy connection for sure. I have since sourced a proper wiring extension for that problem and it has not troubled me since.

For the information of anyone who has a Bafang BBS01 (it may be the same for their other models), the manual says it won't work with a speed sensor fault. This is only partly correct. All that will happen is that the control panel will refuse to follow any further button presses. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on your viewpoint, you will be stuck with the degree of assist that you had before it went on the blink. One way around it is to stop, make the change, and start off again.
 
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
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Apple Valley, California, USA
Cutting out the top panel for the back. You know...the one that will hide the oop's.


Before ...... with oop's showing. (Remember the corners have different radiuses)


And after. It's a cover up I tell you.
Both curved corners now match.




Welding this thin 20 gauge metal, certainly has it's challenges.


I'm running my Hobart 140, @ #2 and +/- 30 wire speed. Setting of #1 is way to low, so there's no other choice.
I'm using a tack/stop, tack/stop method and I still get a blow through once in a while.

Practice/Practice/Practice....still...LONG LIVE THE GRINDER
 
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Joined
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Not much happening today...yet!

I have however, branched out to Endless Sphere for yet more info.
I've looked in on them, once in awhile, but never had a need to get involved, until now.
So I decided to expand my learning curve and branch out, and register with them.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=104270

I'm really wanting to get into the power aspects of this project,
but I'm entering a world that is still o_Oo_O...need I say more?
 
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Sep 12, 2012
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Apple Valley, California, USA
No more work on the StreetRunner, but I have been busy over on Endless Sphere.

There has been a lot of communication with fletcher and amberwolf, discussing specs and alternatives.
There is information there that may be relevant to something you are working on, or contemplating.

I've given a mention back to AtomicZombie.com, regarding my build.
If you're following my build, jump over to the link below, and catch up with what's happening there.

It's interesting how the conversations, opinions, suggestions have evolved from the beginning to present post.
For example, we're now discussing the feasibility of using two 1800 watt motors, instead of going for a much larger one, in size and weight.

Once you've caught up, come back here, and throw in your 2 cents ...please and thank you.

BTW, over there I'm ... Just-Ed

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=104270
 
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Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
2,640
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Apple Valley, California, USA
Milk float motor?
Well now, I think that's 'just the ticket'. I do believe it would 'just fit'. However there would be no space left for the driver/passenger.
Not a bad price though at 230 GBP. And I get to collect it myself, all 100 kgs.
And speaking of tickets, The current rate to London and back +/- $1000.00 USD

So far I'm up to, lets see, That's +/- $300.00 for the motor, $1000.00 for collection. $50.00 gas to the LA airport,
Lorry rental at Heathrow..???? Additional baggage charge for being overweight.
Fish and Chips and a brown ale. (Priceless)

Over budget costs
Man hours, additional materials, and cost calcs for redesign and fabrication.

Popshot, I know you had my best interest in mind, and I truly appreciate the effort.

BUT !, I'm leaning toward running two smaller motors. (If it works out that I can)
It will be cheaper in the long run. Final decision still to come.
 
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Joined
Sep 12, 2012
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After much discussion with the folks at Endless Sphere, I'm at the point of pricing, for a dual motor set up.

Two 48 volt 1800 watt motors, two controllers feeding off, one foot accelerator.
The logic is that with the limited space for drive components, and the need for more power,
two identical motors will help lessen stress on each motor, and still provide sufficient power.

Depending how they are installed in the frame, there will be two jack shafts, either as separate units, or maybe a single/double unit.
Depending on the motors orientation, one motor may be wired, to run opposite the other, thus both motor shafts/gears will turn in the same direction.

Looked into examples of other similar works, so it appears to be doable.

Nothing is in concrete yet. Just looking into the feasibility and costs of using this method, vs a much larger motor and controller.

As always, your two cents is always welcome
 
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Twinkle

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Joined
Apr 14, 2013
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Location
Peacehaven nr Brighton, Sussex ,UK
You will not need a diff to have 2 wheel drive . should work well .
As an after thought , you could always use a pair of dérailleur and rear mounted freewheels and get a multiple speed gearbox as well.

Keep up the good work

regards emma
 
Joined
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Messages
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You will not need a diff to have 2 wheel drive . should work well .
As an after thought , you could always use a pair of dérailleur and rear mounted freewheels and get a multiple speed gearbox as well.

Keep up the good work

regards emma
Hi Emma. Nice to hear from you.

It's taken a fair amount of education and help from others, but I think I may be on a path that will work.

My latest posting
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=104270&p=1523879#p1523879
 
Joined
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Messages
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Apple Valley, California, USA
Its been a few days since doing any work.

This part of the build is somewhat out of my realm, so its been, all about learning, searching and deciding.
What would or should work regarding my, power and battery choice.
The decision to take the path I'm taking, is a result of input from those that contributed,
SO, if ANYTHING goes wrong it's YOUR FAULT ! 😠

Learning

Doing my best to learn all the contributors have offered, I've reviewed the suggestions, here as well as on Endless Sphere.
Taking the suggestions, learning the details, of each comment/suggestion, and trying to apply the results to this project.
Not everything has come easy. Some of it has stuck, and some has not.

So with out further ado, here's what is happening.

Because of the limited space under/behind the seat, the type of motor and especially the battery size, comes into play.
I looked into using a golf cart motor, differential, steering, and electrical. This option though seeming practicable,
would have required changing the frame, and adding another +/- 400 lbs. (Including a minimum of three large batteries)
So after a little thought that idea was dismissed.

I've learned just enough to probably be a danger to myself.

Learning about the motor sizes, in volts, wattage's, amps. battery requirements, charging needs, and associated parts.
What each of those things mean, in weight, power availability, and what each of those things mean in dollars and sense, ...I mean cents!

Battery Choice

I always thought I would use a battery something like this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=48+volt+1800+watt+li-ion+battery&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&oq=48+volt+1800+watt+li-ion+battery&aqs=chrome..69i57.28614j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

But I thought the AH should be higher. Enter Nissan Leaf Batteries.

https://www.techdirectclub.com/solar-rv-powerwall-nissan-48-volt-battery-g1-lithium-ion-3-5-kwh-66-amh-w-option-and-1-bms-lot-of-7/

I would never have thought to use recycled car batteries. I guess there is quite a market for them.
At only 8 lbs each module, they pack quite a punch. 8 volts, 500 watts, and 66 ah, per module. ( I will need a bank of seven )
(With the vehicle gross weight factor rising, the high 'amp hour' of these batteries is desirable, another reason I may use them.
Seven modules is +/- 56 lbs.

Yes the cost is getting up there. I did however anticipate, and mentally budget for, this phase of the project.
I originally estimated it would be around $1000- 1500, so I'm within my budget. (Motors and batteries combined)
The battery (+/- $500-600 ) cost is roughly the same as, or less than li-ion batteries of similar volts and watts.
For my use, the size and shape of these batteries, will allow different placement configurations.

Searching

Next was to look at the types and sizes of motors, Whether one motor or two motor system. A system that would satisfy the requirement, of attaining 20 mph within 1 mile, while not exceeding the requirement of 25 mph.

Because of my still limited understanding, of how all these electrical components work,
I wanted to stay with getting matching components. Extra money...maybe.

Deciding

I'm working with TDPRO on putting together a package for, motors/ controllers, sprockets, wiring, throttle, chains, etc. https://www.ebay.com/itm/48v-1800w-Brushless-Motor-Speed-Controller-Foot-Pedal-Reverse-Switch-Chain-Sproc/303024861914?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20140107094819&meid=ca2ca9f32eb3427db2ff2e32ae5eff99&pid=100039&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=303024861914&itm=303024861914&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2054436&_trksid=p2054436.c100039.m2059

The pre-order cost is currently at $525, not including battery/charger.
I'm waiting on their reply, to my order update this morning.
They must have worked only half a day, because it's Saturday.

Gearing

I used the calculator, https://electricscooterparts.com/motorwheelgearratio.html,
to help determine what gearing I will need to meet the speed requirements.

Calculator Input Parameters

Motor Speed.................................. 4500 RPM
Motor Sprocket ….......................... 9 teeth
Jackshaft input Sprocket ….......... 24 teeth (special order pilot bore)
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p20049128/24-Tooth-05B-Simplex-Pilot-Bore-Sprocket-for-8mm-Pitch-Chain/product_info.html
Jackshaft output Sprocket …........ 11 teeth
Axle shaft Sprocket ….................... 54 teeth
Tire Height ….................................. 24 inches

Speed and Gear Ratio Calculation Results

Top Speed: 24.62 mph
Gear Ratio: 13.09 : 1

Jackshaft required to reduce the motor speed to the drive axle.

This configuration is only the first thought, without having the actual motors on hand to see what fits where.



That's it for now. Anyone see anything glaringly out of place, give a shout.
 
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Joined
Sep 12, 2012
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OK, finally got a reply.

I have pushed the button. No turning back now.


Here's the final order sent to TDPRO:

"You can purchase two of this"
:

"We can adjust the package contents to the below"

2 x Model: 48VDC 1800W Brushless Motor, w/Sprockets: T8F 9 Teeth
2 x Controller
2 x Rear Axle Sprocket (T8F 54 teeth)
2 x T8F chain
2 x Wiring Harness
1 x Ignition Key
1 x Throttle Pedal
1 x Forward / Reverse Switch
1x T8F chain breaker
1x T8F 11t sprocket
2x terminal blocks
----------------------------------------------------------
I will also be ordering one additional T8F 11t sprocket, and one additional T8F chain

Total cost including shipping/tax.....$526.97
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I got tired of searching for the two 24T sprockets locally, so I ordered them from:
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p20049128/24-Tooth-05B-Simplex-Pilot-Bore-Sprocket-for-8mm-Pitch-Chain/product_info.html

With these 'pilot hole' sprockets, I will be able to machine out the hole, to whatever size axle I want.
 
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Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
547
Location
Axedale, Victoria, Australia
Website
axerail.coffeecup.com
I think you have done well to work your way through the mine field of unknowns to come up with something you are reasonably confident about working and then being able to package it all up.

I can imagine it will be like Christmas morning at your place when it arrives and you won't know where to start first. Incidentally, I would expect you'll have enough pulling power for ploughing the back paddock as well.

Well done!
 
Joined
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I got confirmation that my last update to my order, was received and understood.
They will be sending out the order tomorrow (Monday)

I think you have done well to work your way through the mine field of unknowns to come up with something you are reasonably confident about working and then being able to package it all up.

I can imagine it will be like Christmas morning at your place when it arrives and you won't know where to start first. Incidentally, I would expect you'll have enough pulling power for ploughing the back paddock as well.

Well done!
Christmas, now that brought a 😁. Maybe I will try to video the opening, and everyone can enjoy the moment.
The road ahead does look to be, easier to navigate. But one never really knows.
As far as ploughing, I may have over done it, but I think it will be easier to 'tame' the beast, than trying to force it to work harder than can.

I assume there will be 2 jack shafts for a differential effect. .
Individual drive trains . left and right ?
Yes. The drawing doesn't show the split in the shaft, nor the pillow blocks that will hold them.
It's early to say how the set up will actually be. But the gearing set up is close to how it needs to be.....I think!

Also this set up, requires the motor shafts to face each other. That, means wiring one motor to run in the opposite direction. And last night while all this was 'running' through my mind, I happened to think that, only one motor will be wired to act as a reverse. Another reason for the two jackshafts.

The way the frame is constructed, the original intent was for the disc brakes to be in the outer space, while the motor/s, would be in the center.
And another obstacle I created, is the body has to come off, therefore can not be 'permanently', attached in any manner. This requirement makes attaching the motors and the brakes more of a challenge.

 
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Joined
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