Ed's 'StreetRunner' Quad Build

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Sep 12, 2012
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Apple Valley, California, USA
Done a Bunch - Need some Lunch
Great day for working outside. A cool 60 degrees (F) in the shop.

Front visor skin, attached



Attaching lower side panels
Removed the body, so as to get a better working angle.


So, everything has gone.... topsy turvy


Template


Bending to shape


Fit check prior to welding
All surfaces cleaned with Acetone



Yet we have a malfunction of the welding process !
Not sure what happened here.
Had to file down the 'globs' and try again.
Success on second try.



First panel done


Both panels are in and tight
All that remains at this point, is to grind off the excess sheet metal, that I allowed, just to make sure of a good fit.







I suppose the body is now up to a +/- 90 lbs.
 
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It's the eleventh hour, time to decide on power.

The time has come for some serious thinking into what my power requirements have to be.

DISCLAIMER
I will be the first to admit, my intellect for all things 'electronic' could be better.
Oh! I can wire up a shed/work shop with power, and not kill myself, or set the place on fire,
BUT trying to get the formulas, calculations, values, ratios etc. etc. of electronic equipment, is NOT one of my better traits.

The professed seemingly 'simple' answers offered by many, elude me, and I'm sure many others.
Anyway, now that I've acknowledged, my lack of intellectual capacity for such things, I could use some pointers.

Basic requirements

Estimated vehicle weight requirement +/- 600 pounds (272 kg)
Speed desired to be, between 20-25 mph (35-40 km) (Or can be geared to achieve said speed limits)
Battery size ? ( Understand the need for more volts, needed for more power. i.e 48 volt. vs 12 volts, as well as higher AH value for longevity, i.e 25 ah ?)
Battery type ? (Battery type not important at this time. Will eventually be lithium)

Below are links to what I 'think' will get me started.
Other parameters can be found within the specifications contained in the links.
https://www.ebay.com/i/133268521826?ul_noapp=true
https://www.ebay.com/i/303293310776?ul_noapp=true

There you have it. Any help will be appreciated.

I've been flying in the dark, thus far, and am prepared to keep flying solo.
But it would be nice to have some crew members along for the ride.
 
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Have you spoken to the local road rule folks to ascertain their thoughts on what they will let you get away with? That might modify what you plan to do and what you can do. I can't remember what you did back in the early days. The answer to that question could dictate the response you get re power, etc.

Electrics/electronics have distinct relationships between voltage, current, resistance and power. Are you familiar and comfortable with with Ohm's Law?
 

Radical Brad

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I would guesstimate that you could achieve half that speed safely with the motors posted in your links.
This assumes that the motor can indeed put out half of its rated power continuously, or at least 1hp.

Brad
 
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Have you spoken to the local road rule folks to ascertain their thoughts on what they will let you get away with? That might modify what you plan to do and what you can do. I can't remember what you did back in the early days. The answer to that question could dictate the response you get re power, etc.

Electrics/electronics have distinct relationships between voltage, current, resistance and power. Are you familiar and comfortable with with Ohm's Law?
Thanks for the input Kevin
As stated previously, I'm still a bit behind on the learning curve, when it comes to such things as Ohm's Law.
Don't get me wrong, I will, if forced into it, learn what is needed, but I really don't see the need, when I know
there is reliable information out there, that can help move this project forward, and save some of my brain cells.

I believe in the K.I.S.S method.
Example: When I go to buy a new truck, I want to know how much power it has, and what it can tow.
I don't want to learn the physics of how that power is derived.

One must remember, this project is for the love of the creation first and foremost.
Desired use will be in local parades, and showing at the various car shows locally, and maybe regionally.
If I get to use it on the road legally, without undue restrictions, then that would be a plus.

So, the answer would be yes, and then it would be no.

YES by checking the California laws for a NEV

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr37/!ut/p/z1/nZFLb4MwEIR_DUe0yxuOVptCIGkqIRHwBZlXoAqGEAe1_76mkdpTUqU-zR6-8ewsUEiBcjZ3Bya6gbOjnDNq59H6eaUFPka-tSFIoiDYJatE9z0DEqBASy5G0UJW9XNeDlzUXOQ1V1DOCo6X4qxgMQ1le5lqKRt2FnnDSrHoZp4MZ_EYy66CTLc1VtmVo9ZMR9V0NV11K2aontk4NuqFUdU27L9D4Y1HEOj9zJnkndxbo6u5MUa7-NVBQsJAC8039F40iB8MdDW89aNlP2wY_rWCvEv3fjpRIstfCv8QkP67fWmmT9un7UFmZKJVO94MkC4kpD8kpL-k1Fdyv-x1_xZj37vGp8oKFw3rOG9IE5MvlYb2WQ!!/

NO, I've not actually 'spoken' to any official about it.
I'm building this project with the intention of, 'maybe', registering it as a NEV, (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle)
As far as I've researched into NEV's, there isn't any 'voltage' restrictions, like there is for motorized bicycles, which have a 1000 watt limit.

I would guesstimate that you could achieve half that speed safely with the motors posted in your links.
This assumes that the motor can indeed put out half of its rated power continuously, or at least 1hp.

Brad
Thanks Brad for the simple yet informative input.

All else being equal, then a larger motor would be required....???
OR maybe I will settle for a lower speed, for the sake of getting the project ...moving. Upgrade later as needed.

The lower cost of the referenced link, would at least give me a starting point, and an actual operational indicator of future needs.
That is assuming, there's no better solution forthcoming.
 
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Information Update

Found one of my old references

https://electricscooterparts.com/motor-jackshaft-wheel-gear-ratio.html

Using the calculators for a motor without a jackshaft, and one with.

While working with various numbers in each of the methods I came up with the below results.
Mind you I haven't explored whether these numbers are doable, just that they got a 48 volt 1800 watt motor parameters,
to work at a speed, between 20-25 mph.

My initial findings

Without jackshaft

4500 rpm motor
9t motor sprocket
120t axle sprocket (24.243 " in diameter, is really not going to work to well. Unless I place it between the seats...:D)
24 " tire

Resulting Speed.....24.18 mph

With jackshaft

4500 rpm motor
9t motor sprocket .......(2.093" diameter)
32t input sprocket .......(6.721" diameter)
12t output sprocket ....(2.708" diameter)
45t axle sprocket ........(9.313" diameter)
24" tire

Resulting Speed .... also 24.18 mph

Working with these calculators, helps to minimize the loss of brain cells, and gets to the point more direct.....IMHO

Also looking into using a 'geared' motor.

I now declare the floor open, for inputs, opinions, criticism.
 
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The reason I mentioned Ohm's Law was so that you could easily calculate the relationships between the quantities contained therein for wiring, fusing, etc. You can write it down and not have to remember it.

The reason I mentioned the Law Makers was so that you could build for their requirements rather than end up with a project that won't be able to move. After all, if you want to show it, it will have to get to the show somehow - either trailer or drive. Once it is at the show it will either have to be driven or become a static display - all subject to the Law Makers.

A friend, a regular ride companion, told me that he had placed an order for a 500W e-Assist kit. He was advised that the legal limit in Australia was 250W for on-road use and I suggested that he cancel the order and amend it to 250W or he will forever be running the risk of penalty. He did so. I haven't heard of any electrics being pulled up but there have been a few petrol assists, possibly caused by attracting attention. I guess your's will be attracting attention moving or not. I recall reading somewhere that having an illegal setup was sufficient to get booked. You don't have to be using it at the time. I also guess that riding across a road to/from off-road either side will be considered as riding on-road.

Regardless of what the restrictions are, I guess we all would like to use the creations we come up with and, therefore, have to appear to be legal for the intended purpose.

By the way, 250W is supposed to be the output power of a fit human - for a short time. Continual ouput might be more sustainable at around 150W. Like any tired engine that "ceiling" will diminish over the years. In any case, it is all about how fast you want to move.
 
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Thanks for the feedback Kevin

You've inspired me to check with the local organizers of our Christmas Parade. It turns out that the local Kiwanis Club organizes the parade.
Waiting for call back as we 'type'.
I want to let them know what I am building, and what requirements such a vehicle will be required to meet for entry into the parade.

Bear in mind that virtually every year the Shriner's drive their cars in our parade.
If these type vehicles are allowed in our parade, I'm thinking I can too.

http://bestride.com/news/entertainment/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-shriner-cars
 
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Interesting. General road rules might be relaxed for such an event but others such as Working With Children check, Occupational Health and Safety, and an increasing number of others in what is being referred to as a Nanny State might be applied, 'Tis best to find out at the sharp end of things.
 
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Ed: I'd be interested in what they say to see what they do in your neck of the woods. All sorts of things are happening over here, killing some events because they are made unmanageable, due to rules that become more than casual events can cope with.
 
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Ed: I'd be interested in what they say to see what they do in your neck of the woods. All sorts of things are happening over here, killing some events because they are made unmanageable, due to rules that become more than casual events can cope with.
I haven't heard back yet. I will post what they say when I get it.
 
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Meanwhile, here's another step forward

Top bar/support and verticals for attaching the rear panels.
The space in the middle is for either a removable access panel or maybe a hinged drop down access door.
The outer spaces will hold the brake/turn signals....maybe.



The cross bar is visible in this shot.
 
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So much done, so much still to do.
So true. Sometimes I wonder if I will be able to get it all done, 'with quality',
in time for the parade this coming December.

As most of the builders on this site already know, there's those 'life' things that must be continually taken care of.

Anyway I was able to start on cleaning up the newly added side panels.
Grinding off the extra metal, and welding up the seam.

This is the right/passenger side lower panel.
It may be hard to tell what is going on here.
The lighter area is the upper portion, while the darker area is the lower portion.
The extra metal has been ground off, using 40 grit flap disc, finishing with 120 grit.


The complete seam has been welded together, and awaits the grinder again, for its final grind.



Had to quit early, with a bit of tummy trouble. Hope to be back at it tomorrow.
 
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A little bit, no matter how small, every day, moves you slowly but surely towards completion. My build has been going on for two years now. Currently working on framing behind the seat. So many things depend on it. It will decided the seat position and only then can I get onto the front end stuff. Speaking of which, I had better get back into it.
 
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And a little bit more ! Moving right along.

Body back off, first template made.



Right side up view of inside.





Rolled over the bottom, to make less welding, grinding,...work.
The ends need to be snugged up and then welded secure.


Outside corner needs the seam welded shut.


Probably it, for today. This small panel took longer than I anticipated.
Quality (such as it is) takes longer
Time to go watch some football.
 
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oNE NEEDS TO REMEMBER eD LIVES IN California where the government is run by Daffy Duck and friends so to be legal on a public road, Eds art creation must be powered by solor so the state can charge a tax on amount of solar absorbed by said art project.
Sure glad I got out of Calif. when I did.
 
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Looking very snazzy there Ed'.
One of my Bafang units was 360W sadly the silk-screen printed ratings info wore off so I had a replacement rating plate made up.
I must have had finger trouble because this one says 250W. Oh well never mind. I have the software set to prevent it going over 15MPH but at least I have the Torque for start-up.
 
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It's early here, (still dark). Looking to educate myself on electric motors, jackshafts, and gearing.
I ran across, clutches for go karts. I'm wondering whether I should use, (or need) such an item on this build?
Still roaming the internet for info.

Hope to get the other panel installed today.
 
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