Delta wolf or Warrior?

Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
4
Location
Cochrane AB
Hi Gang,

I purchased 6 AZ plans several years ago, bought a freewheel adapter, brake adapter and a couple BB shells. I’ve gathered a few used bike parts as well.
Like to start on a build this Winter, but I keep flipping back and forth between doing a Warrior and a Deltawolf.
Can someone who has built one or both of these give me some pros and cons for each?
I haven’t found affordable front Tad hubs easy to find, or maybe just looking in the wrong places.
Delta looks super comfy and maybe a bit easier to build, but less stable? Is the longer chassis a problem?
thanks!
 

SirJoey

Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
4,664
Location
My cozy little nook in the corner!
DW is definitely an easier build. Other than storing & transporting it, the long chassis is not a problem, IMO.
It's a very stable ride, probably more so than the Warrior, as tadpoles can tip comparatively easily in hard turns,
whereas deltas are comparatively less likely to tip, at least when comparing comparable centers of gravity.

***
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
481
Location
Wakefield, UK
I would suggest the other way round.

There's a lot of tales of Robins going over but never old three wheeled Morgans. The tadpole is inherently more stable in cornering than the delta as the forces all move to the outside front wheel which is absent on a delta. The Deltawolf improves matters over many deltas by substaintially lowering the riders centre of gravity. Brads own blurb for it emphasises such -
"This Lean Mean and Low DIY Delta Trike lets you corner at full speed."


The delta is inherently more stable under braking than the tadpole again because of the centre of gravity position. It is possible to tip a tadpole forwards under extreme braking but you'll need top notch brakes and/or a higher than expected seat and/or front wheels positioned to the rearmost of the expected position to do so. Tipping forwards is a process that's fairly easy to catch and merely let the brakes off slightly just as doing a "stoppie" on a motorbike. I've been there and got the shirt to prove it on that point. My last tadpole could pull a stoppie. Braking a tadpole hard whilst turning removes a lot of weight from the rear wheel and can under extreme conditions lead to the rear loosing traction. Fun when wanting to do it. Not fun when not. Long deltas with a rearwards rider will have little weight over the front wheel so will not generate much braking before the wheel locks up. Again the deltawolf improves over many deltas by moving the rider forwards.

Pros and cons to each. My preference is tadpole.
 
Last edited:

Twinkle

Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
3,571
Location
Peacehaven nr Brighton, Sussex ,UK
l agree 100% with popshot , a tadpole every day for us , after fitting 202mm front brakes we could pull a stoppie unless the tyres didn't grip . Being lower , a lot more stable , only " opportunity" is sourcing decent front disc hubs. Assuming you are mobile then a tadpole is the way to go , with lesser mobility a higher seat delta might be worth thinking about.
The assumptions are all assuming you can weld to an acceptable level
.

regards Emma
 
Last edited:

SirJoey

Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
4,664
Location
My cozy little nook in the corner!
I've had my Catrike tadpole up on 2 wheels in a hard turn, easier than expected, whereas I've
never had it happen with the DW, but then, they both have probably about the same COG.
Comparing apples to apples. :)

Yes, pros & cons to each. For me, difficult to choose. I love 'em both!
Good points on the braking of each though! :)
***
 

SirJoey

Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
4,664
Location
My cozy little nook in the corner!
Really? why do you say that? I was just looking through the plans and having to spoke the wheels for the delta sounds like a big use of time! The tadpole doesn't requrie spokign wheels correct?
Well, that's true on the wheels, but to me, spoking wheels isn't a big deal. I've built quite a few. It gets easier after you do a few. YMMV.
I just didn't like having to build the front end of a tad, with complicated compound angles of the arms, & the whole thing,
which has to be pretty much on the money. I've built both. Build-wise, I'd rather do the delta. Maybe it's just easier for ME. :)

***
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
481
Location
Wakefield, UK
Tadpole wheels really need a minimum of a 12mm axle. The 3/8" axle most come with will not survive being mounted one side only. 20" wheels come with 3/8" as std but a decent sized minority use a 14mm axle which is fine. These almost never have a disc suitable hub so you'll be using rim brakes. VERY occasionally the unicorn drops a 14mm axled disc brake compatible one on ebay. They are incredibly rare so if you are wanting disc brakes your most likley option is to relace a pair of 20" wheels and this means using a hub called a "Thru" hub meaning the axle is designed to be a bolt passing through rather than a permanently fixed axle. These generally come in 15mm axle and 20mm. 15mm would be fine but M15 bolts are very rare so it's usual to go for 20mm axled disc brake compatible hubs when relacing. There's almost no chance of breaking those. Some people go for 26" wheels all round because they can get the right hubs already laced into a rim. This has two drawbacks in that the larger wheels reduce the turning circle or require a wider front beam to compensate plus the taller wheels are inherently less strong being less able to resist side loading. They also often have less spokes making matters worse still.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,788
Location
Washington state
have built both and yes the Delta is easier to build but for performance and IMO stability, a Tadpole is my choice. Have a Streetfox with 3/8" axles (purchased from Bargain Basement Bicycle Parts new).
Yes disc brakes on the Tadpole may have issues but well worth the problems sourcing, building wheels etc.
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
4
Location
Cochrane AB
Thank you all for the feedback! So the answer is....build both?? Lol.
I have to build the first one on the cheap, and seeing as I already have almost enough parts to do a DW, I’ll probably start with that.
I haven’t found a cheap source for 14 or 20mm axle disc hubs here in Canada yet, once I find those, I’ll probably try a warrior.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
2,137
Location
Nottinghamshire England
If you plan on building both start with the DW it is an easier build requiring less accuracy than a tadpole [ ackerman/castor/centre point etc etc ]

It may be possible to build the rear without making the flanges and spoking wheels ?

If you can either drill the cups inner hole out to 3/4" or knock the cups out you can attach a 3/4" axle directly to a steel hub with some custom washer made to weld to the axle and the inner hub flange ?

If you are looking for BMX wheels with 14mm axles try a big chain bike shop that sells BMX's with 14mm hubs, in the Uk it is possible to buy the wheels separately for replacements.

Yes the delta will be longer however they can be stored on their end if you are short of space.

I would not swap a delta for a tadpole !
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
481
Location
Wakefield, UK
I haven’t found a cheap source for 14 or 20mm axle disc hubs here in Canada yet, once I find those, I’ll probably try a warrior.

I know it's ebay.co.uk but they say they post worlwide.
 
Top