delta suspension question

Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
424
Location
Winnipeg, Manitoba
The rear suspension on my red delta has developed some sideways play. The brackets for the suspension were taken off the donor bike and the trike now has prob a few thousand km's on it. Grabbing the seat back it is possible to induce some sideways motion. I did take the pivot point apart, found no noticeable wear. So it got a light coat of grease and was reassembled. Just wondering if anyone here with a delta has had the same issues. Mine is based on the Aurora plans. On another note it just had the previous mid drive motor removed and a 500 watt front geared hub installed. On it's first ride this spring I must say I'm liking the front motor.
 
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Oct 19, 2012
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Wakefield, UK
The aurora has a single pivot and the track at the rear is bound to exert some leverage on it every time it hits a pot hole at one side only. Were I designing from scratch I'd T and brace the main chassis at the rear to match the axle frame and employ two spaced apart pivots like this.

 
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South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
It is usually the bushings that wear into ovals. :)
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
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424
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Winnipeg, Manitoba
Thanks for the reply. Looking at the picture of the rear axle setup with 2 connections has given me an idea for the next upgrade. I use rod ends for the steering linkages but not sure if they would stand up to the abuse of our horrible roads. But there are pillow block bearings available that bolt onto the side of a plate or beam, I'm going to look into those.
 
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Apr 16, 2017
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Winnipeg, Manitoba
I took the trike for a 30 km ride last night. The temp was about plus 6 C. It now has 2 48V batteries linked by a proper electronic device ordered from a company in the U.S. called area51. When the batteries are linked together it is supposed to offer better range because it continually takes power from one then the other battery. Thats what the claim is anyway. What was noticed was neither battery was topped up at the start of the ride, both had indicated roughly 50 volts. 15km's in was against the wind mostly and of course the opposite coming home. Average speed was 24 kph using power level 3 and 4 with me pedaling as well. In the garage at home the display indicated 48 volts. So pretty good. It's my first front hub motor and so far I'm liking it.
 
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Apr 3, 2023
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Hello, Huge. Marvelous backdrop you found. How many icy years of bear & moose did that puffer belly survive? Have you a preference for that hub motor, or do you merely enjoy it's working correctly? Or, does it produce more power than the mid-drive it replaced? Thank you
 
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Apr 3, 2023
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I'd also ask about the performance & ride of your machine, sir. I prefer much about 2 wheel 'bents over uprights, & am gathering material to build a streamliner. Does your machine avoid the awkward handling traits of upright trikes? I really want to build & use a recumbent delta trike as a daily workhorse. The poor handling characteristics of upright trikes slowed building of my 1st recumbent delta.
 
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Apr 16, 2017
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Winnipeg, Manitoba
That locomotive was the first one built in Western Canada at the Transcona shops sometime around 1926. Per your question about the front drive it's kind of complicated, I've been experimenting with different styles of bike drivetrains. I will explain and try to make it brief. I have made 2 different delta trikes having decided that for me it is preferable to the tadpole style. The red one in the picture first had a Bafang 750 watt mid drive. It performed well and obviously had lots of power. Then I overbuilt another delta style ( read as really heavy). That one used a direct drive rear hub motor in the right rear wheel and pedal pedal power to the left rear wheel via a jackshaft.

Some folks on the Bentrider rider site said that it was a bad idea and would cause poor handling. That turned out to not be an issue, the 2wd system worked great. It's only problem was the weight of the trike. The motor that was used was a max 1000 watt. A cycle analyst was installed to lower the power level to below the legal limit here in Canada which is 500 watts. The overall weight combined with rough roads damaged the motor.

So that project was shelved for now and I built a full suspension 2 wheeled long wheelbase recumbent and gave it the Bafang mid drive motor. I'm waiting for spring then I need to learn how to ride that one safely.

That takes me to the picture of the trike with the geared front hub. It is a 500 watt Bafang unit. I tried to source a smaller 350 watt motor locally but the 500 was available. I have never run a front hub motor. The reason it was selected was for the redundency of 2 drive systems. Me pedaling the rear wheel and having a separate drive in the front is working like a charm. With 20" wheels gearing is an issue, I need at least a 50 tooth chainring to be able to get any decent speed. And as for the handling you can see it is fairly long, about 8' and fairly low. Unlike upright trikes it has no poor handling characteristics that I've found. Common sense is of course helpful when riding it. Per your question about power the mid drive has more but thats hard to quantify when riding. They are both good and fun to ride. On another note I also ride a fat bike in winter with 4.8" tires and installed another Bafang mid drive on the fat bike. That was 7 years ago , the motor is 1000 watts, the only one available for a fat bike at the time. It's been troublefree the entire time. Given the nature of the off road trails where the fattie is ridden the average speed is under 10kph and it never goes above level 3 in summer or 2 in winter.
 
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Apr 3, 2023
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Wowser, Howser. Thank you much, Hugh. (That is more information than I usually ask in such a concentrated space.) Beyond good to see you don't experience any of those naughty upright handling flaws. Encouraging, is what I say. ('Course I probably could wreck a tree without using a bit of sense.)
It doth appear you are awash with motors, controllers, & wheels. O my! That estimate on gear size with 20" wheels is more inciteful than I'd figgered. My recumbent bike was factory geared for the timid with a very small chainring. I bounce the front wheel in lower gears, & have almost no top end. The 1st couple short rides were the learning curve, & screamed "GET BIGGER GEARS & TIRES!" Thus, plans for the monster began. I've eyed 52 to 60 tooth gears, but am thinking about adding a jackshaft with an easily swappable gear on the output side to drive cogs on a larger rear wheel.
Have you experimented with crankarm length? It seems to me that taller drive gears should be more easily pushed with increased arm length (crank throw), but have read that shorter crankarms relieve knee pains sometimes exasperated by longer crankarms. Many thanks again
 
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A little more info for you Ronald. Your comment on the jackshaft was spot on regarding the gear changing. On my overweight delta with the jackshaft there were 3 gear clusters. The center beam held the crankset. A shorter chain than what is usually on an upright bike ran to the first gearset on the jackshaft. To take up the slack on the chain an old rear derailleur was disassembled and the jockey wheel part was welded to the frame. Now we are at the jackshaft.

For that a 5/8" keyed shaft was used. A couple adapters from a U.S. company called Staton industries were installed. These fit the 5/8 shaft and have threads on them that will accept a freewheel. They are also available with holes to mount a disc brake. Here 2 freehubs were installed. The inboard one mounted the same orientation as if it were on a wheel. The outboard one flipped over so the smallest gear faced outwards. Then a chain from the outer freewheel back to the right rear wheel. This gave me a large variety of gear choices. Simply loosening the locking set screws on the Staton adapters allowed the gear clusters inner and outer to be repositioned to try a different size of gear and adjust the chainline. It worked great and after trying a few different combos I found a good for me set of gears. The freewheels were all Shimano 11 32 I believe. Not the lightest but it's what I had in my parts bin.

Regarding crankarm lengths I have experimented a bit. First on my fatbike. Since it has a bafang motor there are multiple cranks available. The original 170 mm on my favorite trail experienced pedal strike on tree roots and rocks, even pitching me off the bike a few times. So a pair of 155 mm arms were installed. No more pedal strike. Thats easy with a Bafang mid drive, you can find both left and right crankarms and swap them out. The knee pain debate rages on ever so often at bentrider online. The only time I've ever experienced knee pain a slight adjustment moving the crankset fixed it. In my case a little more leg extension was called for. Other than that I have no knowledge.

Now for a comment about your streamliner. On my Warrior tadpole I built a couple enclosed bodies. It was tough to mount them to the frame using Brads frame plans. The first one was roomy and the front had a pivot point to allow it to tilt up. It worked well for weather protection but eventually bent the front boom. So a smaller body with a door was built. That was scrapped when my friend remarked it looked like a coffin. Both of the body styles worked pretty good especially against the wind. Since the tadpole was useing a BionX rear hub motor the battery lasted longer and used less power due to the aerodynamics.

That was the end of the Warrior tadpole and I migrated to the Delta style. My first enclosed body for that used 3 fat tires 4 x 26". A right side door and completely enclosed except for the floor. That one powered by my trusty Bafang BBS02 750 watt mid drive. Fun to ride in rain storms since you stayed dry. This was during the covid times so riding around in the city kept me insulated from people. The coldest weather it got used in was a low of minus 20 C. I kind of miss it, it was Not aerodynamic at all but it looked cool and had great weather protection. The biggest downside was it was hot was you got pedaling. That and it was also top heavy and it did tip over once in an off camber situation.

The next one was the heavy build. One huge improvement was an open vent in the front. But thats for another day
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2022
Messages
94
Location
Sagle, Idaho USA
The rear suspension on my red delta has developed some sideways play. The brackets for the suspension were taken off the donor bike and the trike now has prob a few thousand km's on it. Grabbing the seat back it is possible to induce some sideways motion. I did take the pivot point apart, found no noticeable wear. So it got a light coat of grease and was reassembled. Just wondering if anyone here with a delta has had the same issues. Mine is based on the Aurora plans. On another note it just had the previous mid drive motor removed and a 500 watt front geared hub installed. On it's first ride this spring I must say I'm liking the front motor.
Hugh- I was thinking about that side to side play problem even before I started building this Timberwolf project a couple of months ago.

I think the fix for this is to add a couple of stainless steel cables at a 45 degree angle from the rear frame corners to the centerline backbone tube. These are used for sailboats and the like and you can buy swaged on end clevises or just use eyebolts to anchor the ends. It would not need a heavy duty cable size maybe 1/16" or 3/32" would be plenty. And you probably would not need the cables to be much longer than 18" or 2 feet to get plenty of leverage to stabilize the pivot joint. Hopefully the cables would be out of the way as far as getting on and off the trike too- mostly under the seat area hopefully. They also sell turnbuckles for cable and that would add the ability to get some fine adjustment into the mix.

Forgive me for barging into your thread, but I thought you might like the idea and try it out.!
 
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