Danny's Daily Delta

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South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
Update 28th March 2020:

I am not disliking this "lockdown" too much as it means I can spend lots of time doing my stuff and less time looking after grand-kids.

Today I put a 4mm steel plate onto the end of the keel with some "captive nuts" welded in place. An additional piece of the square tube was used to provide further strengthening.
It doesn't look wonderful, but I have seen a lot worse looking efforts. The pivot then bolts onto the plate and the front triangle bolts to the pivot.
A long way round to do it?
Yes, but it isolates the frame from changes of the pivot or the front triangle.
Here is the first weld of the plate to the keel tube (the others were not so pretty).



In this weld I am melting the 4mm plate back and filling the canyon between the plate and the curve of the edge of the square tube.



Once all the screaming and shouting was over on the TIG box (I broke my favourite Torch, the T9) I assembled the frame completely together.

You can see (I think) that the bridge on the front triangle is redundant IF I rework the triangle itself.
Also, the keel droops downwards and this will be rectumfied when the front triangle is reworked as the attachment to the pivot will be closer to the 10" axle line.



With a seat on, you start to get an idea as to where the pivot will be in relation to the riders hips.



And here it is with a short fat-person wobbling about on it.



I don't like the look of the handlebar placement options at this point. :unsure:

It has been a very chilly day, so I broke the trike down and came back indoors to warm up.
 
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Update 30th March 2020:

It has been a couple of days and I have made some changes to the trike.
I hacked the front triangle about and cut a 30-degree wedge out of both sides so that the end of the triangle presented to the pivot at the same angle as the pivot.
When all welded up again it came out pretty much in alignment with the keel. And before anyone"else" comments, no, that is not my handbag nor my dolls-house. ;)

I fully reassembled the whole frame and put the very front end of the triangle on top of an axle-stand and played "fat-boy-bounce" games on top of the keel at the pivot area.
Nothing broke or bent, and I think that is more stress than it is likely to encounter on the road.
Next up is the final seat mountings and then I can sit safely on it in a riding position and work out where the Bottom Bracket will need to be located.

As the trike is only for my use I could make it totally "fixed", but the temptation is to make it adjustable so that I can share the horror experience.


 
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Update 31st March 2020:

Some housekeeping bits on the build today, capping off open frame sections and placing a crush-tube in the rear spar to provide a rear seat mount.
Here is the cap on the rear spar with an M8 nut welded to the underside so that a flag-holder can be screwed in place. The rear fixing of the seat will be an M8 QR bolt through the crush tube that is in the rear spar.



Here is the capping of the "PPP" (Perfect Python Pivot) attachment tube.



And here is the whole thing at rest.



And here is the same thing in a video format but with some ideas on the BB placement:


 
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Nice apart from ?

' what a mistaka to maka ' ?

Well the only bit of this trike that has not been cut and shut ? yet ?

In my experience you will have lots problems with your brake cable orientation , I have been through 3 iterations and mine is still not idea just livable with ?

the cable orientation is wrong :-
a) the loop underneath will be so big it fill foul on things - if to tight it will bind
b) you are asking for trouble in the wet as it will fill up with water - rust - and then bind
c) you won't be able to easily get to the adjusters as the seat will be in your way

In my view it needs to be horizintal underneath with the cable pointing forwards - the very situation I first tried to avoid !

So :-

a) only gentle loop required for it to get to main frame
b) harder for water to get in
c) much easier to adjust - just tip the trike over enough to get the wheel off the floor and your hands in from underneath - or even completely on it's side it should balance on the other wheel

Just trying to remove the pain ....
 
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Nice apart from ?

' what a mistaka to maka ' ?

Well the only bit of this trike that has not been cut and shut ? yet ?

In my experience you will have lots problems with your brake cable orientation , I have been through 3 iterations and mine is still not idea just livable with ?

the cable orientation is wrong :-
a) the loop underneath will be so big it fill foul on things - if to tight it will bind
b) you are asking for trouble in the wet as it will fill up with water - rust - and then bind
c) you won't be able to easily get to the adjusters as the seat will be in your way

In my view it needs to be horizintal underneath with the cable pointing forwards - the very situation I first tried to avoid !

So :-

a) only gentle loop required for it to get to main frame
b) harder for water to get in
c) much easier to adjust - just tip the trike over enough to get the wheel off the floor and your hands in from underneath - or even completely on it's side it should balance on the other wheel

Just trying to remove the pain ....
You might be right about the cables being unmanageable, but the rear brake cables enter from directly above (the stop-housing is hooked into the slot on the top of the backplate) and the inner cable exits out and forwards onto the actuator to make sure any water flows down and out. Also, it will have a boot on it. I will let you know if it rusts up or binds. ;)

Greenspeed have theirs horizontal & pointing forwards, which may be right, but it may also drive water/spray into the cable tubes as you go forwards?
Because my wheel & backplate fixing is welded onto the end of the 40 x 40 I can indeed just cut it off & re-weld at 90-degrees if I have to. :)

 
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You might be right about the cables being unmanageable, but the rear brake cables enter from directly above (the stop-housing is hooked into the slot on the top of the backplate) and the inner cable exits out and forwards onto the actuator to make sure any water flows down and out. Also, it will have a boot on it. I will let you know if it rusts up or binds. ;)
Oops my bad 😭

Greenspeed have theirs horizontal & pointing forwards, which may be right, but it may also drive water/spray into the cable tubes as you go forwards?
Idea position , however their trikes goes in the wrong direction.

Because my wheel & backplate fixing is welded onto the end of the 40 x 40 I can indeed just cut it off & re-weld at 90-degrees if I have to. :)
I couldn't do much about mine as the frame went vertical and really needed to be horizontal at the brake point.
Yours looks much better as there is no frame in the way 360' around the back plate.

Of course I am clueless as to how you managed that , unless it is a property of the 'titty pins' ?

I am of course bereft of ' titty pins ' :(:(😭
 
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Oops my bad 😭



Idea position , however their trikes goes in the wrong direction.



I couldn't do much about mine as the frame went vertical and really needed to be horizontal at the brake point.
Yours looks much better as there is no frame in the way 360' around the back plate.

Of course I am clueless as to how you managed that , unless it is a property of the 'titty pins' ?

I am of course bereft of ' titty pins ' :(:(😭
Ahhhh...... well the QR pins capable backplates are c.£33 ea. and the QR pins are additional to that.
When you compare that to the Hub alone which is £36 ea. its not bad value.
It does mean I can run 2 hub-braked style trikes (tadpole or delta) on 1 set of rear/front roadwheels.
As I can only be sat on one trike at a time it has storage and packing away/transport advantages. :D
I should get a chance to do more on the trike this afternoon.
 
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Ahhhh...... well the QR pins capable backplates are c.£33 ea. and the QR pins are additional to that.
Actually all the SS backplates are the same and I do have the fitting for the QR's just not the pins themselves....

Someone on here said your life hangs on a couple of 3mm balls hammered onto a taper ?
Since those fittings also take a 12 mm bolt I was going to use that instead , my life then hangs on a 12 mm lock nut :whistle:
 
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Actually all the SS backplates are the same and I do have the fitting for the QR's just not the pins themselves....

Someone on here said your life hangs on a couple of 3mm balls hammered onto a taper ?
Since those fittings also take a 12 mm bolt I was going to use that instead , my life then hangs on a 12 mm lock nut :whistle:
This is very true all that's between you and certain-death is your tiny little balls under immense pressure. :eek:
 
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Update 1st April 2020 from this old Fool:

A rather mixed bag of results today.
The successes were the welding of the front seat mount to the keel and getting a BB & cranks clamped to the front triangle to get a sense of where it needs to be fitted.


The seat height is about 14" off the ground.

So the ideal BB height is supposed to be about 4..6 inches above this.
The rest was less good.

The tom-foolery searching for the possible best position for the BB and cranks broke one of my "baby-G-clamps".





I think I have established the "Zone" where the BB is supposed to go, and I am sure I can achieve it; and gingerly turning the cranks got my hip joints in some positions they are totally unaccustomed to.



The height of the BB axle is about 20" off the ground and 4" back from the front of the triangle.
It is achievable I think, but any ideas of "adjust-ability" are out of the window.

 
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Ok 4 questions ?

  1. What are the dimension like compared to the orange trike.
  2. are you saying the position is uncomfortable ?
  3. why did you not mount the seat further forward ?
  4. What's the seat back angle ? it looks very laid back ?
 
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Ok 3 questions ?

  1. What are the dimension like compared to the orange trike.
  2. are you saying the position is uncomfortable ?
  3. why did you not mount the seat further forward ?
  4. What's the seat back angle ? it looks very laid back ?
Hi Paul, thanks for dropping by. I had hoped that you would.

  1. A tape measure says the seat to the far-reach of a pedal is 40" (but the seat is saggy on bungee) so it will probably be 42".
  2. It felt "less comfortable" than the Orange trike from a hip-flex perspective and the BB is almost level with the seat on the Orange trike, whereas this is higher.
  3. That is about as far forward as I can get on the keel, it ends just about there. Further fwd and the cross-beam of the seat would be hanging out in space. :ROFLMAO:
  4. Dunno, it probably is a bit laid-back; I think it is 45-Degrees (see yesterday's pictures) so I will set it more upright and see what that is like.
It might be that having the BB higher is a good thing for me to get used to given the state of my leg muscles. Maybe a middle-ground can be found in the "window of possibilities"

Cheers, Dan.
 
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Hi Paul, thanks for dropping by. I had hoped that you would.
Only if I say what you want to hear ;)

A tape measure says the seat to the far-reach of a pedal is 40" (but the seat is saggy on bungee) so it will probably be 42".
Not sure this answers question 1) are the 2 trikes the same ? if not which has the greater distance?

It felt "less comfortable" than the Orange trike from a hip-flex perspective and the BB is almost level with the seat on the Orange trike, whereas this is higher.
Not sure what ' hip-flex ' is ? maybe I haven't got any ?

That is about as far forward as I can get on the keel
Yes ? so ?
it ends just about there.
It ends where the last piece of metal is welded to it ?
Further fwd and the cross-beam of the seat would be hanging out in space. :ROFLMAO:
See above , if you swap your pivot bolt over so the nut is on top the seat could come 2"-4" further forward ?
Dunno, it probably is a bit laid-back; I think it is 45-Degrees (see yesterday's pictures) so I will set it more upright and see what that is like.
the more laid back the greater the angle between your thighs[ if horizontal ] and your back and more upright seems to shorten your leg length [ probably a x-seam thing ? see below ]
It might be that having the BB higher is a good thing for me to get used to given the state of my leg muscles.
I think if you get on it and think it is wrong it probably will be.

You mustn't get the pedals to far away for your leg length , else you will damage your knees , there must be NO hip rocking whilst pedaling.

Of course the comparison needs to be with a trike you have ridden some distance on , I think that is in Wales now ?

I think you mention X-seam ? x-seam-guide maybe on a phone call ? I can't find it here or on an email ?



Mine is approx 46" it is pointless me quoting figures from my Python if yours differs greatly ?

I think I move my Python seat forward 3" or so for you and it was not really enough.
 
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Only if I say what you want to hear ;)
We may talk later but I get all of your points.
My "X-Seam" above was measured with my backside against the wall (no reclined board involved, just my bum tight against the wall and the tape alongside me and her measuring)
By "Hip-Flex I mean how high my knee comes up towards my chest with the pedal at its closest point to me (170mm cranks Vs. 150mm is a difference, but this feels a bit too alien) - Would suggest the BB is too close.
I will do a bit more of a detailed measure of Loki Vs. "This One". There is a combo that will work available to me I am sure, I just have to find it.
 
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Update April 2nd 2020:

A whole lot of measuring got done today to compare the LOKI tadpole layout and its BB position with what is currently possible on the delta while they were sat side-by-side.
UPSHOT: I know exactly where the BB should be on the Delta (which is good) :). I cannot place it there with the current front triangle frame (which is not so good) :(.
So the front half of the frame will have to go under the surgeons knife for some modifications.
My options are:
  1. Cut the frame forward of the drop-out plates and replace with a new layout that tightly hugs the contours of the wheel.
  2. Sacrifice a pre-built frame consisting of chainstays and Bottom bracket and weld this onto the existing frame and then cut the problem part of the frame away.
 
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Update 3rd April 2020:

Today I modified the front tri-mangle to be super-slim on the front half so that the cranks would not hit the frame (Doh!). :)
I was surprised at how easy this was to do, and totally amazed that the finished item remained square and straight.

Some of the welds "look" cold but actually it is because I did some areas twice and pushed a lot of metal into the pool. I may choose to blow them over again with the torch to flatten them out. However... the front half is far less structural than the rear half, and so is less critical.

The wheel runs square & true and the cranks do not foul at all. There is/will be (I think/suspect) a return-side chain-to-frame interference problem, but I may be able to get round this with a conveniently located chain tensioner/derailleur; if not, then it will be chop-chop-buzz-buzz-fix-fix. ;)

I put the wheel in the frame and it is as expected.

 
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So I had a couple of phone calls with a southern geezer who kept repeating ...
' I have the idea of cutting some pieces with 45' angles and making the rest parallel '

So then he say's

' I have cut some pieces with 45' angles and made the rest parallel '

I am thinking is he mad , I have not seen a single Python front to BB frame with 45' angled pieces and the rest parallel.

However the boy seems to have gone and done it , at it looks to work !!!

What ever next ?

Suppose he will claim to have be ridden next ?
 
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