Carrying camping gear on a 2 wheeler

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Hi all

Well my thoughts are turning to carrying camping gear on a 2 wheel recumbent , this will allow me travel on European trains and so instead of riding a circular route from the ferry port I can ride a train for a day and then spend 2 weeks cycling back to the ferry ?



German trains look a challenge ?



i.e Hook of Holland to Lubeck Germany , dipping my tow in the Baltic 😁 7 hours there by train and 364 miles in 2 weeks to get back ?

So the requirements :-
bike must be as short as possible - to get in the bike spaces on the trains
as little tiller as possible
20" x 20" - will help making it shorter
CLWB rather than SWB less twitchy and more relaxing to ride long distances
uncomplicated no esoteric parts - easier to maintain and fix

So lets start with my definitions of recumbent's ?

LWB = Long Wheel Base both seat and pedals inside the wheel base usually 26" x 16" or 20" lots of tiller


CLWB = Compact Long Wheel Base compact version of above in this case seat will be inside wheel base pedals will be very close to steering inside or outside wheel base


I currently have one of these and cannot ride it more than about 60 miles before my knee's and back hurt.
There is insufficient adjustment in the seat and handle bars , I also don't like the 16" front wheel much easy to lock it up or it to lose grip on poor surfaces

SWB = Short Wheel Base pedal long way out in front can be twitchy to ride and needing constant correction which can make them tiring.



I also owned one of these for a few years unbelievably light and wickedly fast and just waiting to bite you should you make a mistake , very hard ride being sat over a 700c wheel with w 100 psi 1" tyre and very laid back making it fraught in urban traffic.

In the UK a good candidate would be the Pashley PDQ :-



From a review here D Hembrow PDQ review

As usual when you want one of these things they become as rare as hens teeth so may have to apply torch and stand well back ?

CLWB was popular amongst the IHPV movement maybe 25 years ago and there are some good examples on the net if you google for them.
This one I particularly like Kranky :-



Apart from the 26" rear wheel it seems perfect , I also like the left/right side chain makes management easier and stops lots of flappy chain and puts the front changer in the same place it was on the original bike frame with a Nexus 7 at the rear I should have a easy to look after bike ?

So off into the scrap pile to see if I have some suitable bits ?

all the best Paul
 

SirJoey

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Great review & summary of the different types, Paul!

I got a chance to ride one of those CLWBs once, like the one you said you own.
I thought it handled great, but since it was only a very short ride, I had no idea of extended ride comfort levels.

My first bent ever was a LWB, a Rans Stratus. Yep, very comfy, but also, as you mentioned, very long, & lots of tiller.
Later, I built what I consider a SWB, similar to "Kranky", but didn't really care much for it.

These days I only own one LWB, a lowracer, which is still unfinished & in storage. Hoping for the day I get to finish it!

I'm really more into trikes (still have a tadpole & 2 deltas), & my one & only beloved quad!

***
 
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Kranky looks good and easy to make.
Put a hinge in the boom just ahead of the headset tube and fold the boom upwards for putting it on a train.
Would fit in the bike-racks on European trains then.
 
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Dan

A radical idea ?

I was sort of thinking of making the seat fixed and the boom slide in and out for leg length adjustment ?

Paul
 
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Dan

A radical idea ?

I was sort of thinking of making the seat fixed and the boom slide in and out for leg length adjustment ?

Paul
Yes, but will your legs get any longer or shorter as you age now do you think, are you still sprouting up like a beanstalk or is your inseam going to vary as your bones crumble away to dust?
Put 3"..4" of adjustment in the front 12" of the boom, or make it the right size for you to start with, maybe, perhaps, possibly? ;)
I think the hinged boom might have merit, despite the naysayers. :ROFLMAO:
 
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Dan

Nope no naysaying left my lips.

You seem to have the idea I know what my leg length is and it is simply a matter of reading it off a tape measure ?

Your tolerable seat/BB length varies considerably depending on what you change ?
seat back angle - distance you plan on travelling [ see Oke-Ja above ] - speed you want to travel at - crank length - gearing [ are you flogging up a hill in to high a gear ]

The sweet spot on the Python is probably not where I have it now , however I do know [ by real world testing ] that I can ride it all day at a comfortable cadence without injuring myself or doing any lasting damage so that is where it stays !

Some said slightly tongue in cheek ? all said with a smile/cheesy grin
 
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Haw! Haw! It is all said in fun Paul.
If you could adjust +4" from a minimum, is that enough do you think?
Does it have to be +/- or is it Minimum to Plus "X" that would do?
 
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How many times have you ever changed your boom length while flogging up a hill in the wrong gear? - Never! Changes to that position do not happen in flight.

How many times have you changed the seat position of the Python fore/aft during a tour/trip? I bet it is less than once or twice, and it went back to where it lives normally and for 99.9% of the time. :)

A bike like the OK-Ja is uncomfortable and "wrong" from the beginning to the end of the ride. What compounds its "wrongness" is just the length of the ride that makes you notice its "wrongness" more maybe?
I can sit on an uncomfortable chair for a while....eventually I want to get up and try something different because the discomfort just overcomes my ability to ignore it.
 
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How many times have you ever changed your boom length while flogging up a hill in the wrong gear? - Never! Changes to that position do not happen in flight.
I don't recall saying I did ?

How many times have you changed the seat position of the Python fore/aft during a tour/trip? I bet it is less than once or twice, and it went back to where it lives normally and for 99.9% of the time. :)
hmmm don't recall saying I did ?

A bike like the OK-Ja is uncomfortable and "wrong" from the beginning to the end of the ride. What compounds its "wrongness" is just the length of the ride that makes you notice its "wrongness" more maybe?
I can sit on an uncomfortable chair for a while....eventually I want to get up and try something different because the discomfort just overcomes my ability to ignore it.
No quite , it is comfortable for short rides and I have no discomfort from it , I did 20+ miles last Wednesday on it and enjoyed them all.
However for me my leg/arm length are not within the adjustment range of the seat/steering so after a few miles the body starts to complain.

The point you seem to be missing is that initially you actually have no real idea of the seat/pedal configuration any particular trike/bike needs for you to feel comfortable on it , and certainly if it is new how to set it up for say a 100 mile ride.
This only happens when you have put lots and lots of miles on it and doing rides that are longer and longer.

The point I am try to make is the position you can tolerate for say a 20 mile ride is not necessarily the same position if you set out to do 100 mile ride ? so 4" of leg length adjustment could save a cut and shut welding job after the first 100 miles ?
 
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The point I am try to make is the position you can tolerate for say a 20 mile ride is not necessarily the same position if you set out to do 100 mile ride ? so 4" of leg length adjustment could save a cut and shut welding job after the first 100 miles ?
OK, got it. I had thought you were suggesting the requirement to change was more dynamic than just the ability to make a change of length at some point in the life of the rider-to-trike combination; my mistake.
Most assuredly I could not get on your trike and ride it at your inseam setting (although you probably could on mine) but not be particularly comfortable. :ROFLMAO:
It is true that the first thing I do at the gym on their bike is reset the saddle to get the leg-length right....every time.
 
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Well got some bits out and started mocking it all up ?



The bike behind is the one that I can't ride more than 60 miles on without discomfort ?

So I want the seat further from the pedals without being further from the handle bars !

So the rear end is propped up in about the right position , I have not used a MTB triangle as on a 20" wheeled bicycle they are very compressed and stop a front ring bigger than 48t from being used.

The wood standing in for the top tube needs to be level and will be the same height as the rear bike by cutting the seat tube down a little then the seat will be at the same height.

No idea of a head tube angle , currently I need to find a slender 20" fork with a large steerer tube as I need as much tube as possible to weld both the upper and lower frame tube to it.

Large steerer tubes tend to be on 26"" wheeled bikes.

The pedals need to be about 1" higher and not to stick out in front of the tyre so making the bike as short of possible.

These dimensions are very similar to Kranky I believe.



The wheelbase is set at 48" and with 20" wheels gives a bike length of 68"

A neighbours Hybrid has a wheel base of 41" with 26" wheels giving a bike length of 67"

Question is how much does a second hand bike have to cost before it is not worth building this bike ?

Yes there is some kudos in building your own bike , however I get plenty of that from the Python !

regards Paul
 
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So I want the seat further from the pedals without being further from the handle bars !
What about lengthening the rear to increase wheelbase over a typical SWB. You can keep the seat closer to the steering then as DannyC says you could then hinge the boom to shorten it for train use. Having a longer rear would create more space for luggage. Something like this but with normal steering rather than underseat.
 
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I agree, "bragging rights" are just a little over-rated, but I do enjoy the "making" of things very much.
 
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What about lengthening the rear to increase wheelbase over a typical SWB. You can keep the seat closer to the steering then as DannyC says you could then hinge the boom to shorten it for train use. Having a longer rear would create more space for luggage. Something like this but with normal steering rather than underseat.
It is like a bag of water - squeeze one end and it bulges out somewhere else 😁

I briefly owned this :-


can you see w/b is about same however look where pedals are ? this makes it very difficult to ride in tight spaces as when the wheel turns the pedals/rings go in a completely different arc I dropped the bike twice trying to avoid the pedals hitting a wall during a tight 90' turn I had to turn early and the rear wheel failed to climb a 2" curb edge dropping me and the bike on the floor.
All well and good except your legs are out almost horizontal and either side of the bars so the bike pins you to the pavement and laid on your side you cannot right it to get it off you ... all you can do is crawl out from under it cursing :mad:
 
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Would a 2-wheeled Python work better Paul? The improved turning radius and cranks that follow the wheel into the turn but in the same relationship?
 
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Would a 2-wheeled Python work better Paul? The improved turning radius and cranks that follow the wheel into the turn but in the same relationship?
My companion will be on a normal recumbent making communication difficult

May be if I had 2 years to learn to ride one !

There is one hanging in my bike shed been there IIRC 4 years
 
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