Video of a ICE trike crash - quite an eye opener [ glad it wan't me ! ]

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Hi all
On the German Velomobile site


Thread here ICE crash

Trying to film and inattention to the upcoming bend seem to be big factors.

Assessment including video

Paul
 
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He was very lucky it happened on a slow flat corner.
Very interesting that an ICE came apart in some way, really would like to see more details of the "failed" bits.
I am sure ICE would be interested too, maybe they need to issue a "check this" bulletin?
 
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He said the rear wheel buckled. It doesn't look like it did to me. That looks like main chassis failure rather than the rear wheel and that should worry ICE. It will probably twist back with the use of a large lever such as a barbell but will fail again in some other corner. If the original unbent metal wasn't up to it then straightened metal certainly won't be. If he had two hands on the trike rather than filming he may have caught it and countersteered into the field. It wouldn't have stopped the twisting but may have saved him some skin. He's damned lucky it was a slow corner and no traffic. He should talk to the manufacturer.
A. They should replace it and
B. They need to redesign it or identify the defect.
The rider isn't a whippet but he's no porker either. Any commercial machine should take his weight and such a cornering speed. It's a black mark against ICE for sure. Good find Paul.
 
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He said the rear wheel buckled. It doesn't look like it did to me. That looks like main chassis failure rather than the rear wheel and that should worry ICE. It will probably twist back with the use of a large lever such as a barbell but will fail again in some other corner. If the original unbent metal wasn't up to it then straightened metal certainly won't be. If he had two hands on the trike rather than filming he may have caught it and countersteered into the field. It wouldn't have stopped the twisting but may have saved him some skin. He's damned lucky it was a slow corner and no traffic. He should talk to the manufacturer.
A. They should replace it and
B. They need to redesign it or identify the defect.
The rider isn't a whippet but he's no porker either. Any commercial machine should take his weight and such a cornering speed. It's a black mark against ICE for sure. Good find Paul.
I agree, it isn't the rear wheel. That appears to still be straight (relative to the axle). Something has failed with respect to the wheel and the frame. Not sure which ICE variant it is.
But I played the video 1/4 speed and it almost seems like the frame is still square with respect to the cross beam but RH-side of the rear axle is trying to leave the dropout.
I wonder if the QR skewer wasn't properly done up?
 
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The rear wheel seems to have 'rolled' (as in pitch, roll, yaw terms) first, so I agree with the consensus, there was a fault or something loose.
That arm is a mere scratch. You should see my war wound from Stourport!
No really my deepest sympathy for when this happens.
Arm protection and gloves are a must for me from now on.
 
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You can see a slight wheel twist at 5.00-5.17 into the vids. Just a few degrees= more weight on the right side and going into that corner compounds it till it becomes terminal. The chamber of the road isn't helpful either. He was going to spill out on the right.
 
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The ICE trikes split I think to allow different configurations [ i.e wheel sizes , but don't quote me on that ]
It has been attributed to poor maintenance rather than a design/build problem with the trike.

This was in post #64

We are spinning in a circle.

Yes, the rear triangle of the VTX was crooked
Yes, the owner should have checked the clamping screws
No, the clamped tubes are not a bad design
No, oval tubes of the required quality are not available
(oval tubes, on the other hand, would be a bad design, a bit of dirt or rust and then nothing moves anymore)
The main cause of the fall were simple driving errors

Did I forget something?

Oh yes:
Would the special experts who "bang on" the clamping screws also please make sure to use screws of the appropriate strength class? My suggestion would be M6 screws of at least grade A4-70 (even A2-70 or 8.8 are too soft). If you "bang on" please use galvanized 10.9 or better 12.9 screws. Then don't whine if you rip the soldering points off the frame tube.


Paul
 
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The main cause of the fall were simple driving error

Whether or not there was a splt tube clamping bolt that failed that statement isn't true. The corner was taken at moderate speed and the only "error" was in filming which was not the cause of the failure.



A split tube chassis design is inherently unsafe if the clamp fails making the clamp screws critical. I've used the Ice type clamp on bottom bracket booms where it's not critical and failure is inconvenient only. I wouldn't use such a system on so critical a joint. Ice use screws as std the QRs are extras. You can't measure torque on a QR and nobody carries a torque wrench on a cycling trip if regular screws are used.
 
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Also....

What if you need to separate that joint after years of never doing so. You use penetrating fluid to get it to move but fail to get all the fluid out on reassembly. The torque needed to keep it safe will change. Or what if a previous owner had it apart and coppaslipped it before reassembly to keep it free from seizing. What clamping force is required with that stuff in there? Even if this is all covered in some online manual not everyone will read it. Even if it's covered in a safety sticker on the frame will that sticker still be there years later.

The clamping system is certainly capable of doing the job but it needs a redundancy system to back it up imo.
 
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Also....

What if you need to separate that joint after years of never doing so. You use penetrating fluid to get it to move but fail to get all the fluid out on reassembly. The torque needed to keep it safe will change. Or what if a previous owner had it apart and coppaslipped it before reassembly to keep it free from seizing. What clamping force is required with that stuff in there? Even if this is all covered in some online manual not everyone will read it. Even if it's covered in a safety sticker on the frame will that sticker still be there years later.

The clamping system is certainly capable of doing the job but it needs a redundancy system to back it up imo.
The usual clamping arrangement plus a short keyway section in the female and a key on the male might help?
 
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