Starting over, but feeling okay about it

Hello Popshot, Stormbird et al:

I am deciding now to hang up the idea of the four wheeled pedal car, having failed at the Jackshaft (it pulls the whole rear assembly to the right side) and also the unwieldiness of the sheer length of the pedal car. I plan now to cut up the whole project and convert it into a tadpole trike. I hope yet to contain it in a housing that allows for all weather travel, one of the original ideas and to power it using my existing Bafang motor and a design similar to this guy who started with a AZ plan. Basically I am building an ELF

I wonder, for starters, where and what kind of front wheels I can use that will be supported on one side only and can accept brake rotors.

Also which of the existing AZ plans might best suit my project.

all the best...Dan
 
Single side mounted 20" wheels with disc mount and 14mm axle are rocking horse poo. They do exist but finding a pair is very hard. 3/8 axled ones are common but the axle will likely bend. You can use 14mm axled BMX wheels but they don't do discs. There is a bodge to use discs by getting rear wheels with a freewheel thread then using a screw on adapter (same thread) for discs and glueing and bolting the adapter on as the right hand wheel will be fine but the left wheel will want to unscrew the rotor when the brake is applied. You can see here that I've bolted three of the disc mounts through the hub flange. I also epoxied the adapter. You need hubs with a large flange to do this. It worked fine and never failed despite doing stoppies on the trike. If you don't like the idea of such a work-around then you are building your own wheels. Building wheels is a doddle so don't be put off by it. 12mm high tensile is the bare minimum axle size to avoid bending it. If off roading and / or you are heavy then you may need a bigger one. You can get thru hubs in 12mm, 15mm and 20mm. Finding axle bolts for 15mm is a tough job. The 15mm axles used on mountain bikes are hollow and both sides mounted so no use to us. You can get 15mm to 12mm adapters to use 12mm bolts if you can't get 12mm hubs. If you ever bend a 20mm then bending the axle will not be your main concern. 20mm bolts do weigh a lot so I'd suggest only using them if you feel you need them. You could use a smaller bolt built up with weld at the bearings on a 15mm or 20mm hub as an alternative. A number of 12mm hubs are centrelock disc mounts and you can get centrelock to 6 bolt adapters to avoid paying for centrelock discs. If you are flush then Sturmey do single side mounted hubs with a drum brake in both 70mm and 90mm drum diameters. They can be got with a quick release wheel which makes sorting a puncture easier.

You could opt for wheels other then 20" but the bigger you go the more room they need to turn and the bigger the wheel the more likely you'll bend it given that no bike wheel is designed to take side loadings as on a trike. 20" is the max recommended and I've managed to bend 20" myself so bigger won't do IMO.

You have a left field option of Mobike front hubs and wheels if you can get them in your location. They use a 90mm drum and 24" wheels with solid tyres designed for single side mounting. Again though they are not designed for lateral loads. I will find out in due course if they will take such loadings on my next build.

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Basically I am interested in following members projects that are Tadpole Trikes and where they sourced their 20mm wheels etc.
 
"There is a bodge to use discs by getting rear wheels with a freewheel thread then using a screw on adapter (same thread) for discs and glueing and bolting the adapter on as the right hand wheel will be fine but the left wheel will want to unscrew the rotor when the brake is applied. You can see here that I've bolted three of the disc mounts through the hub flange. I also epoxied the adapter. You need hubs with a large flange to do this. It worked fine and never failed despite doing stoppies on the trike. "

This appeals to me. Bodge? I think you mean improv of some sort...? Tell me more!
 
dandeangeli said:
"There is a bodge to use discs by getting rear wheels with a freewheel thread then using a screw on adapter (same thread) for discs and glueing and bolting the adapter on as the right hand wheel will be fine but the left wheel will want to unscrew the rotor when the brake is applied. You can see here that I've bolted three of the disc mounts through the hub flange. I also epoxied the adapter. You need hubs with a large flange to do this. It worked fine and never failed despite doing stoppies on the trike. "

This appeals to me. Bodge? I think you mean improv of some sort...? Tell me more!
Click to expand...

Like this :-

disc rotor adapter

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Paul
 
Them's the ones. I screwed them on tight. Drilled through 3 of the holes and through the hub flange using a drill that just fit comfortably without knackering the threads. Screwed the adapter off and drilled the flange holes out to 5mm. Smeared the threads in epoxy and screwed the adapter back on ensuring it was perfectly aligned by quickly getting a long m5 bolt through the adapter and flange. When the epoxy is set, you are attaching the disc and screwing the three long bolts through I added a nut betwen adapter and flange and a nut inside the flange. This is so the flange has a nut both sides to effectively clamp it.

This does risk pulling hard at the flange if the epoxy lets go. The epoxy is the prime means of attachment so ensure the threads are clean. The bolts are there as a fallback and safety feature to get you stopped and home if the glue fails. It may well damage the flange should the fallback be needed. As I said though that trike would lift the rear wheel under extreme braking so it took a lot of force and held. Only the left wheel needs doing but I did both in case I ever put the wrong wheel on the left.
 
Hi AZer

My project is coming along in fits and starts, I have a jackshaft now that works albeit adding a lot of weight with all the pillow blocks, anchors etc. I have a steering desing based on Brad's street fox design, though I have to say it wobbles on rough surfaces and bumps more than my liking. I rode a commericially made trike this weekend and was impressed with the stablility of the steering. How can I modify my project to stablize the steering?

I will attempt to upload pictures
Video of Jackshaft
.Images of my pedal Car

Dan
 
Last two links give a page does not exist message. Jackshaft link shows 4 pictures of the pedal car but no jackshaft.
 
Popshot said:
Them's the ones. I screwed them on tight. Drilled through 3 of the holes and through the hub flange using a drill that just fit comfortably without knackering the threads. Screwed the adapter off and drilled the flange holes out to 5mm. Smeared the threads in epoxy and screwed the adapter back on ensuring it was perfectly aligned by quickly getting a long m5 bolt through the adapter and flange. When the epoxy is set, you are attaching the disc and screwing the three long bolts through I added a nut betwen adapter and flange and a nut inside the flange. This is so the flange has a nut both sides to effectively clamp it.

This does risk pulling hard at the flange if the epoxy lets go. The epoxy is the prime means of attachment so ensure the threads are clean. The bolts are there as a fallback and safety feature to get you stopped and home if the glue fails. It may well damage the flange should the fallback be needed. As I said though that trike would lift the rear wheel under extreme braking so it took a lot of force and held. Only the left wheel needs doing but I did both in case I ever put the wrong wheel on the left.
Click to expand...
Popshot

I am considering this to attach fixed sprockets to my rear wheels for the quad.
Any reason why you did not drill all 6 holes and dispense with the epoxy all together ?
I assume the flange in steel will be as strong as the poor quality used in the Chinese made adaptors ?
The trick is to find some M14 axled BMX wheels with big enough diameter flanges IMHO.

Paul
ps sorry for thread hijack
 
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dandeangeli said:
Here are a few of the Pedal Car in its current iteration. Pedal Car in profile
Click to expand...

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First off this is a great achievement and it is being used even better
Steering looks to me like you tried to convert direct steering to indirect steering , this has resulted in 2 many joints and areas where you cannot guarantee you have achieved accurate enough symmetry for a steering system ?
Start by clamping one of the front wheels to the frame [ wood and straps or sash clamps [ NOT to hard ] ] then go to the other wheel and grabbing it either side level with the axle is there any play discernable ?
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Nice neat fitting your centre point looks good however how far backwards does the kingpin lean ?
What is the bracket for seen at the bottom ?

Have you tried to measure the tracking , i.e do you have toe out or toe in ?

is the steering very sensitive i.e 1/4" movement at handlebars causes it to change lanes ? [ yes I have ridden something like that !]

Paul
 
Thanks for your reply, Paul.

I can certainly immobilize one wheel and look for play in the system. Perhaps that is the problem.

The bracket you see is there because the wheel system used to be in front of the frame and the whole vehicle was too long, so, I moved it back. I will try to show a picture of the old set up and you will understand.
 
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