Starting over, but feeling okay about it

[dandeangeli]

Hello AZers

I am breaking down the rear end of my pedal car, having become discouraged by the limitations of the welded axle wheel combo as specified by the design of the Timberwolf, and Streetfox designs. Moving forward, I will use normal bicycle wheels with a freewheel cassette hub on the drive side and a standard front wheel as the coaster side rear wheel.

To that end, I need to make a short axle to transfer the drive from the center of the bike to the side of the bike. I want to hear how others have built such a transferring axle, how it was mounted etc.

I will send pictures if I can figure out why Google is not rendering properly.

Happy 2023!

Dan de Angeli

 

[Popshot]

Lots of ways to do a jackshaft. I used an IGH to do it because I wanted some gears. That may not be wide enough for your use so you'll need a wider option. All you need is a rotating shaft of sufficient length that you can mount two sprockets on. Cutting down an old rear hub and widening is one option and the IGH below was widened. Have you given thought to where you are going to place the cassette / freewheel cluster? You can place them on the jackshaft at the driven side and then only need a single sprocket on the other side and the wheel. That would keep the width of the wheel and sprocket combo to a minimum. You'll also need a minimum of a 12mm thru hub for both the driven wheel and the other side if single side mounting them. Anything less won't last.

 

[stormbird]

Lots of ways to do a jackshaft. I used an IGH to do it because I wanted some gears. That may not be wide enough for your use so you'll need a wider option. All you need is a rotating shaft of sufficient length that you can mount two sprockets on. Cutting down an old rear hub and widening is one option and the IGH below was widened.

You can't write that without explaining how !!!
Something I had considered on a number of occasions

Paul

 

[Popshot]

It was so long ago I can't remember but the picture shows it was extended. The outer is easy enough to extend on the non gear side. I may have simply welded an extension to the shaft directly onto the existing shaft.

 

[dandeangeli]

Hi Popshot

Yes...Jackshaft. I have learned a new word. Yes that is exactly what I am going for. It appears that you took a larger sprocket and welded it on to a shaft on one side, then attached an old Sturmey Archer IGH (Inside Gear Hub?) to the other. I am thinking two fixie freewheels or one fixie and one regular cassette should do it.

let me know if this is visible:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gZH35oSPxqMLqCRV8

Here are some photos of the project.

Project from below

Project from the side, purple arrow shows the central chain, yellow arrow showing the side chain location

Side View

thanks for guidance

Dan

 

[dandeangeli]

In a word, your words:

"rotating shaft of sufficient length that you can mount two sprockets on."

 

[dandeangeli]

Here is a video of the old set up which I decided to redo:

can you see?

Wobbly Wheel

 

[Popshot]

IGH = internally geared hub

Your video shows a halfshaft rotating. The different nomenclature is because the shaft directly drives the wheel. A jackshaft is an intermediate shaft between the drive and the axle. ie chained to the drive at one side and chained to the wheel or wheel axle at the other.

Your side view is also the bottom view.

Your drawing shows both ends mounted wheels with a drive to the outside right of the trike. The picture shows single sided mounted wheels with a drive to the inside left side of the trike. Both will work. If you want to then use rear triangles for the chassis arms to the rear wheels and use suspension too to achieve an independently sprung rear end you need to keep the jackshaft as close to the pivot points of the triangles as possible to keep the chain length the same as the suspension moves. You only need a cassette or freewheel either on the jackshaft or wheel. Using one at both points equals extra gears but extra width at the rear wheel axle with the gears. I'd keep the gears on the jackshaft and use just a std freewheel on the wheel. That will keep the stub axle shortest and strongest.

If using 20" wheels you could simply buy ready made 14mm axled rear bmx wheels but that will leave you with rim brakes only. Use the exact same wheel on the other side even though it isn't driven to keep hub dimensions the same. If you want 26" or 700c l'd opt for a pair of 12mm front thru hubs and use a disc brake mount to also mount a fixed sprocket and mount the freewheel on the jackshaft instead. This will keep the stub axles shortest and strongest. The downside is the chain to the jackshaft will always rotate during freewheeling. 8.8 HT M12 bolts will suffice for the axles and I'd use a bit of 18mm od 12mm id tube as the welded on mount to put the bolts through. Keep the pass through tube the width of the chassis so you have no issue with bolt heads.

Viewed from underneath

 

[dandeangeli]

Hi Popshot:

Thanks for the help!

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I am getting rid of the arrangement of solid axles shown in the video.

My new plan is to use normal wheels, one with a freewheel cassette, the other a standard front wheel repurposed as an independent second rear wheel. Here are two photoshopped images of what I want to do. the squiggy blue line is the long chain from the crank to the Jackshaft. the Yellow line is the shorter chain from the Jackshaft to the freewheel cassette.


View from Below

View from the side


Here is a diagram of the plan from below

Plan

I took your image and photoshopped it to show the view from the top:

Plan from the TOP

It also shows my frame design, which has the wheels surrounded on all sides with 3/4 inch square tubing. (Perhaps overbuilt?) Also it shows the long chain being received by a second freewheel cassette which transfers the power to a small fixie cog which is not free spinning. I have not figured out how the whole thing gets anchored, or if it makes sense to have it in front (as shown in my sketch) or behind (as shown in the red and black diagram) of the pivot for the shock.

Sorry for the wordiness!

and thanks for the input

Dan

 

[stormbird]

Nice looking build , shame you encountered that problem.

Hopefully it will be an easy fix.

Seems you can display your pictures instead of links ?
Right click picture and select Copy Image Link then either click the mountain picture above or Ctrl+p
Then paste the Copy into the box [ Ctrl+v ] and it will show like this


Paul

 

[dandeangeli]

"Copy Image Address" was the key...thanks Paul I will do so moving forward.

Here I am on Christmas Day in my pedal car. I look happy but its fake. The steering, drive train and eventually the rear end were all rebuilt after this.

 

[Popshot]

Here I am

No you're not. No picture showing either via the desktop or phone. It's probably showing for you though. Possibly you are using either the wrong type of link as different forums require different prefixes and suffixes etc or you are using a picture set so only you can view it. ie not a public file or folder.

 

[dandeangeli]

Oy vey...Well I will continue to use links to show photos.. Here I am yadda yadda...

 

[dandeangeli]

Also here is a revised design showing the Jackshaft supported by 1.5 square tubing, and repurposing a second freewheel to receive the central drive, transferring to a small fixed cog then back to the derailleur and main freewheel.

 

[dandeangeli]

 

[Popshot]

A pleasing design. The shape is lovely.

 

[Gmhowell]

It also shows my frame design, which has the wheels surrounded on all sides with 3/4 inch square tubing. (Perhaps overbuilt?) Also it shows the long chain being received by a second freewheel cassette which transfers the power to a small fixie cog which is not free spinning. I have not figured out how the whole thing gets anchored, or if it makes sense to have it in front (as shown in my sketch) or behind (as shown in the red and black diagram) of the pivot for the shock.

Sorry for the wordiness!

and thanks for the input

Dan

The 3/4 boxing seems a bit much.

As far as fixing gears to jackshaft, you can either use a keyed shaft (available at McMaster Carr if in US) or file a flat and use a set screw with these adapters. I’m not sure what would work best. Also I’m wondering how you keep the shaft in place from side to side motion.

The closer the jackshaft is to the pivot, the better. When the suspension moves, it’s going to transfer at least some energy into/out of the chain. I would look at a suspended mountain bike or even motorcycle to see how they manage it (all my motorcycles are shafties so I never thought much about it)

-George

 

[dandeangeli]

New Design

Hi George:

Useful feedback, thanks. I agree overkill on the 3/4 tubing, so I have moved the Jackshaft assembly forward in front of the pivot for the suspension. I believe the derailleur on the rear freewheel should accomodate movement in the chain when the suspension is active.

As for side to side motion, the axle will be mounted to two pillow blocks which have set screws for that purpose.

Also I already have a seat frame that I can mount the whole jackshaft assembly to, cross fingers!

Thanks for turning me on to the adapter route, I have one already that I plan to use.

sorry about the links to images, I still have not mastered how to paste images into this text box...others manage the trick, I don't why it wont work for me.

Dan

But maybe you can see it?

 

[dandeangeli]

A pleasing design. The shape is lovely.

Thanks Popshot! I hope to make it run as well as it looks...

 

[Gmhowell]

i see a link but not an image on the webpage (iOS mobile) but saw the link in my email app (gmail) when the forum software notified me of a reply.